The Fognini Forehand

[stroke]

Really? Awesome. Thanks.

P.S. I like Toptennis's videos.

This ties in with the Fognini thread nicely. I had not really thought of this, but Simon is correct I think. Andre definitely had the very powerful compact forehand. Maybe the first one.

[jimlosaltos]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/cUhrD6qYvQkgP3ab8

Jim, coincidentally, I had seen this on the toptennistraning site, and had actually asked Simon just this question. This is his response.

Really? Awesome. Thanks.

P.S. I like Toptennis's videos.

[stroke]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/cUhrD6qYvQkgP3ab8

Jim, coincidentally, I had seen this on the toptennistraining site, and had actually asked Simon just this question. This is his response.

[stotty]

Wouldn’t this be Sinner’s way of making the backswing functional, since he isn’t raising the racket head to create the muscular boost required with a bent arm?

[stroke]

Jeff,

Do you see any similarities to Jannik Sinner's forehand?

Sinner keeps his take back low like Fogs, and short like Fogs. Both like the take the ball early and hold the baseline. Sinner rotates the racket head more than Fognini, often turning the racket face further back, pointing the contact face flat at the back wall,

But is that a matter of degree or something different?

I think this is an interesting comparison Jim. Both super compact. Maybe Jeff will chime in. I agree Fabio does not have the racquet strings facing the back(completely inverted) like Sinner, and Fabio hitting arm is more extended it seem at contact. Both can take the ball on so early all day it seems. Sinner in a way a next gen Fabio maybe. Fabio's to me a better model. That strings facing the other direction thing looks like a tough ask, but clearly not for Sinner.

[jimlosaltos]

Jeff,

Do you see any similarities to Jannik Sinner's forehand?

Sinner keeps his take back low like Fogs, and short like Fogs. Both like the take the ball early and hold the baseline. Sinner rotates the racket head more than Fognini, often turning the racket face further back, pointing the contact face flat at the back wall,

But is that a matter of degree or something different?

[jimlosaltos]

Thanks for this. I'm curious at to whether or not you'd recommend teaching this at the outset (generally) of a beginning player's education. (I'll leave their age out of this for the sake of the discussion, okay?) In the 70s, Mr. Frank Brennan, Sr. (father of the Stanford coach, and BJK's coach) suggested we mimic Nastase's forehand. Mr. B called it a "pronated forehand," and whether the nomenclature was correct or not the idea was that the wrist came back ahead of the racquet head, which then whipped around at the "end" of the backswing. If you watch the point at 1:14 of this youtube clip you can see it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf4wrrpzdYc). Of course Fognini's grip is quite different than Nastase's, which explains differences in the racquet head's angle, but to my eye the effect is similar. There are other forehands on the men's tour that are similar – so much so that Brad Stine's got a (rather dismissive) phrase for it, something like "hinky forehand" – most notably Khachanov's and Tiafore's (even more extreme). There's no doubt this forehand as potency, but the motion *does* introduce additional variables in production. Fognini is a rare talent (physically, anyway). At what stage would you see teaching this?

I know Frank Jr { Long retired after 10 NCAA titles, now his son coaches at Stanford}. I'll have to forward to reference to his father. I'm sure he'd appreciate it.

[doctorhl]

I have seen variations of the shark tail whip and rainbow racket path many times but could not articulate it. Great explanation of the movement and especially the role of the shoulder in the up and out into the " box".

[stroke]

Wow. Looks like a kid but hitting the same massive ball.

Wow indeed. Exactly what I thought. To me, the only player with better overall technique during Fabio's career was Fed. I actually saw similar footage of Fed practicing one time and it looked eerily similar.

[jeffreycounts]

Here is footage of Fabio practicing at 18 years old. Certainly classic Fabio.

Wow. Looks like a kid but hitting the same massive ball.

[jimlosaltos]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DL5XL...ZycHY5eWpkNw==

Here is footage of Fabio practicing at 18 years old. Certainly classic Fabio.

That's great.

[stroke]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DL5XLXDI30f/?igsh=MWsxZHZycHY5eWpkNw==

Here is footage of Fabio practicing at 18 years old. Certainly classic Fabio.

[jimlosaltos]

Fogninni announced his retirement today.

[stotty]

Thanks for this. I'm curious at to whether or not you'd recommend teaching this at the outset (generally) of a beginning player's education. (I'll leave their age out of this for the sake of the discussion, okay?) In the 70s, Mr. Frank Brennan, Sr. (father of the Stanford coach, and BJK's coach) suggested we mimic Nastase's forehand. Mr. B called it a "pronated forehand," and whether the nomenclature was correct or not the idea was that the wrist came back ahead of the racquet head, which then whipped around at the "end" of the backswing. If you watch the point at 1:14 of this youtube clip you can see it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf4wrrpzdYc). Of course Fognini's grip is quite different than Nastase's, which explains differences in the racquet head's angle, but to my eye the effect is similar. There are other forehands on the men's tour that are similar – so much so that Brad Stine's got a (rather dismissive) phrase for it, something like "hinky forehand" – most notably Khachanov's and Tiafore's (even more extreme). There's no doubt this forehand as potency, but the motion *does* introduce additional variables in production. Fognini is a rare talent (physically, anyway). At what stage would you see teaching this?

Lovely find and observation re Nastase’s forehand. Nastase had a good forehand and used a continental grip. From memory, he never changed his grip (or did so very little) and used the same grip for both forehand and backhand. I watched him play many times. I liked his serve. Great racket speed. The clip opens up with Nastase serving an ace; no kick back and he lands on his right foot and not the left…hits the ground running and off to the net.

Thanks for sharing!

[jeffreycounts]

Mr. B called it a "pronated forehand," and whether the nomenclature was correct or not the idea was that the wrist came back ahead of the racquet head, which then whipped around at the "end" of the backswing. If you watch the point at 1:14 of this youtube clip you can see it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf4wrrpzdYc). Of course Fognini's grip is quite different than Nastase's, which explains differences in the racquet head's angle, but to my eye the effect is similar.

That is really something. I slowed down the video clip you mentioned and sure enough as Nastase's shoulders open towards the net, his racket loops back and down in the opposite direction, going right by his right leg before going inside out into contact. This is a very "modern" forehand. The only difference I see is he lacks the "box" finish I mentioned in the article, but like you said that has a lot to do with the grip and the weight of the racket. Thanks for replying - this is really quite stunning.

I teach the body rotations early on. I like Jack Broudy a lot and use his training aids:

https://store.beyond.tennis/

Jeff