Djokovics equipment.

[sfrazeur]

"Vomit?" Harsh word choice.

Most big hitters, high level players and juniors are going to find this process pointless. They will break through the gut too quickly either way and would use poly in the mains for superior spin potential. Only a minority string gut mains, poly crosses. In fact, assuming for a moment that you are correct, most players in general would not see the monetary value in the process as they would be paying someone to restring half their racquet. In which they would be charged for full labor as well. This process would only be applicable to a small niche set of Tennis players who string with gut mains, have their own stringer and the time or inclination or funds to do it. If they did have the funds they would not care about regularly restringing the crosses to save on the supposed wear on the mains.

As well, you can put undue stress on the frame without breaking it. So it is not possible to say with complete certainty that no harm is done at all.

Additionally, poly strings when fresh snap back more so than older ones. The only thing I can see where older poly crosses would cause more damage is from the more advanced notching. But then again, niche process.

-Shaun

[tennis_chiro]

Interesting stuff

No harm at all if you know what you are doing. The deeper the notch, the looser the tensioning cross, the more snap back sawing occurs. The crosses are the tensioners, but this cannot be done with mains that don't hold tension well, unless you string the crosses correspondingly loose. Most non gut string goes too loose very fast with hard hitters, who don't know the technique I am describing. Nor do most stringers, even. Like I said, no harm to the frame at all if done right. I also prestretch the frame before locking down. It's surprising how many stringers are not familiar with this. They just vomit others opinions, without ever having tried nor perfected it themselves, which I don't know if you have done so as well, but it sounds like it. It is truly astonishing, how little tension (this can be proved by taking a sonic recording) is lost with vs gut done in the right manner. Almost no tension is lost at all, I'd say, about 8-10%

I'm relatively in the dark, but I find this really interesting. Seems to make some sense too. But I don't buy the part about "almost no tension is lost at all". If you lose just 8% on a 58 lb string job you are doing a string job with the mains at a little over 53 lbs. Do you pull the crosses a little tighter to make up for the loss? But then you would have reversed the usual lower tension on the crosses relationship. Or do I have that wrong too?

don

[GeoffWilliams]

No harm at all if you know what you are doing. The deeper the notch, the looser the tensioning cross, the more snap back sawing occurs. The crosses are the tensioners, but this cannot be done with mains that don't hold tension well, unless you string the crosses correspondingly loose. Most non gut string goes too loose very fast with hard hitters, who don't know the technique I am describing. Nor do most stringers, even. Like I said, no harm to the frame at all if done right. I also prestretch the frame before locking down. It's surprising how many stringers are not familiar with this. They just vomit others opinions, without ever having tried nor perfected it themselves, which I don't know if you have done so as well, but it sounds like it. It is truly astonishing, how little tension (this can be proved by taking a sonic recording) is lost with vs gut done in the right manner. Almost no tension is lost at all, I'd say, about 8-10%

[sfrazeur]

I do it all the time as described in my earlier post.

I do not fully know what actual damages can occur to the racquet when restringing crosses while keeping the mains. Even when locking the frame down prior to cutting out the crosses. However, I would not do it to my frames. Nor would I it for a stringing customer's racquet.

Not as fast if you restring the crosses often. They don't have time to notch and saw as much.

Moreover, it doesn't make sense that restringing the crosses often will reduce wear on the mains from the crosses.

-Shaun

[GeoffWilliams]

I do it all the time as described in my earlier post.

[sfrazeur]

Not as fast if you restring the crosses often. They don't have time to notch and saw as much.

This doesn't make sense to me. Are you advising stringing gut in the mains with poly in the crosses and regularly restringing the crosses?

-Shaun

[GeoffWilliams]

Not as fast if you restring the crosses often. They don't have time to notch and saw as much. $25/set, hybrid, is only $12.50 for the gut, and if he uses a syn gut as cross, it's way cheaper than nrg2, but the control doesn't last as long. It's the game that counts, not the money for the string.

[tennis_chiro]

Thanks

Shaun and Geoff,
Thanks for the help. I'll let you know how it works out.
don

[sfrazeur]

It will break faster in the mains. The mains move back and snap back. More movement, more sawing.

-Shaun

[GeoffWilliams]

That's why you don't put it in the crosses, and use the technique I mentioned, to extend its life span! Many of the top pros use vs team hybrids: joker, murray, roddick, federer, and lots of others. Why is that? Better control/power than any other string that's why, but you have to know what you are doing. the other most common string is alu power: Delpo, berdych, soderling, etc.

[sfrazeur]

I would avoid gut. Depending on the age and strokes of any 4.5-5.5, gut in the crosses may last an hour or so or less. His mileage will vary of course.

I've strung for and worked national 12s, 14s and 18s events. Only a handful used gut and that was in the crosses. Oddly enough those who did were not the better players. The better players in his age range used either full poly; Luxilon, Babolat, Tecnifibre or hybrid the crosses with multifiliment or synthgut; Sensation, Prince Synth Gut w/Dura flex, etc. I recall more using full poly. Pro Hurricane/Tour, ALU Power and Big Banger Original being the most popular ones.

Have him try out a hybrid or two with a mid range multifiliment (+/-$10)and see if he prefers it.

-Shaun

[GeoffWilliams]

I would place it in the mains, but many use it in the crosses, and there is a diff. there as well, vs. cheaper alt. Gut is far more durable than given credit for. Cheaper alt: X1 biphase, or nrg2 as mains with pht. Cheaper still: og sheep micro, supex spiral syn gut, orig. prince syn gut. Normal for a very hard hitter is between 5-15 hrs. 18 x 20 patterns help, as does lower tens., and stringing the crosses higher also helps. (Less snap back sawing motions.)

I would disagree on the basis that your average player can get quite a lot more life out of gut than they would out of pht since they will likely not break the string as fast if this method is used. Tension maintenance and elasticity will last significantly longer. Comfort, safety from injury and playability can last a very long time.

Unfortunately most average players don't realize the benefits of paying more up front for gut.

[tennis_chiro]

Too expensive

Then talk to babolat, for their $25/set price on vs team, for top juniors. And have him restring the crosses as listed. Just try it once, and come back and list the results.

Even at $25/set, how many hours can you play with a set? And I thought you would only use the VS for the crosses, or is it mains, I get confused. But even then, it seems like the gut won't last more than a few hours (forget about changing every 9 games like the pros when the balls change). All of a sudden you are talking $100/week for gut (at a deep discount which I doubt he can get with his ranking). Come on, Geoff. You remember what it was like not to have any money. There has to be a more reasonable alternative using some combination of the synthetics. It may not be as responsive and sensitive as real gut; but I thought it might be a lot better than just playing with Hurricane Tour for mains and crosses. That stuff is not that cheap either.

I used to have a lot of elite players. Many of them seemed to break a string every time I saw them, and I saw some of them two or three times a week. I know rackets generate a lot more spin and string wear than in my day, but we used to get at least a couple of weeks out of a string job (let's say 15 to 20 hours of play). What is considered normal duration for a string job for a good player (4.5 to 5.5) who plays 10 to 15 hours a week.

I always get a kick out of how my students hit when they break their last string job and have to finish their lesson with one of my sticks (now Head Fire's about 4 or 5 years old, strung a few months ago, with one or two Shockbuster II's in them). The ball goes a little slower, but lo and behold, they can feel the ball. And the feedback immediately affects their stroke, ... positively. I always tell them their task is to get that feel out of their rackets by holding the ball a little more. Occasionally, they hear me, but not very well.

Anyone else out there have a different suggestion?

don

[GeoffWilliams]

Then talk to babolat, for their $25/set price on vs team, for top juniors. And have him restring the crosses as listed. Just try it once, and come back and list the results.

[tennis_chiro]

Hybrid

What brings you to this conclusion?

-Shaun

Honestly, I am not that good on all the different strings today. I'm trying to get past tight for control and loose for speed. I loved playing with gut, but I really couldn't afford it. I learned to love my nylon! I keep hearing that most of the players are using a combination of two different kinds of strings for mains and crosses. I don't get that involved in actual stringing, but I see a lot of my elite juniors doing this kind of thing as well. I don't compete at all anymore, but I was pretty stuck at "string it a little tighter than the middle of the range", although at the end a couple of years ago, I learned you had to string Luxilon below midrange or you destroy its' benefits.

When you can consistently hit groundies above 60 or 70 miles an hour and serves in the teens to 120's, I think the advantages of the right equipment, string job and tension are probably very significant.

This kid is one of the hardest working players I've ever had on the court. But he didn't start playing until about 4 years ago and his resources are limited. Just trying to help him get the most out of his opportunities.

don