A New Teaching System: Part 1: Introduction

[John Yandell]

A few hundred more posts--get going. The Forum software assigns your status based on participation!

[richberman]

New teaching program

John,
You know I am of tennisplayer.net and of yours. SO, I am very eager to continue and learn from your tutelage. At 67 yrs. young with 40 years of teaching under my belt, I think I have a pretty good idea about how best to teach our game. However, I know I will learn more from the insights you will be sharing with us.
Bring em on!!
Rich

Just noticed I am a 'junior member' - what does it take to be a grown-up??

[richberman]

New Teaching System

Would love to hear your thoughts on my latest article, "A New Teaching System: Part 1: Introduction"!

John,
You know I am of tennisplayer.net and of yours. SO, I am very eager to continue and learn from your tutelage. At 67 yrs. young with 40 years of teaching under my belt, I think I have a pretty good idea about how best to teach our game. However, I know I will learn more from the insights you will be sharing with us.
Bring em on!!
Rich

[John Yandell]

Greg,

You are using the site exactly as designed...

[tntenniswhiz]

I understand exactly where you're coming from here. Sometimes the modern techniques are no better than old fashioned methods...sometimes they are not as good. I think it has a lot to do with the age and ability of those you are teaching. There is little point teaching middle-aged students modern techniques, nor to low-ability students of any age come to that. For young players with ability the coach should do his best to install modern techniques, certainly with ground shots...for volleys I'll stick to how it was taught 25 years ago thanks.

But it isn't always easy. Teaching the ATP forehand and the serve can be tricky. Sometimes I think I've got a stroke right with a student, then a few weeks later the shot starts to morph and things don't look quite so right. Other times things don't look right but then bed down and turn out better than I thought. This is coaching, you have to be awfully to control every aspect...and I am not sure anyone can.

Tennisplayer is a cutting edge website. I think it is the best website for coaches and players that has ever existed. The owner is dedicated and highly skilled yet never comes across even the slightest bit bigheaded. Many of the contributors on the forum are also very knowledgeable and skilled themselves. People are often on hand to help. Coaches don't tap into each other enough at times.

The point I would most like to make is this. Coaches all know a great forehand or serve when they see one, that's easy. The question is WHY is it so good? What makes Federer's and Nadal's forehand better than others on the tour? I can never answer those questions to myself when I watch the top players on the tour. After frequenting Tennisplayer for many years I believe these questions might be answered by biomechanics. Brian Gordon's work on the ATP forehand and his serve articles go a long way to explain why some methods work better than others. His articles break things down.

The big problem guys like us have is HOW to apply and go about teaching this wonderful knowledge. Teaching it is not always easy and coaches can run into difficulties. Like you, things have backfired on me as well at times...or don't always go as well as I would have hoped.

I am really hoping John's articles are going to help us all in this respect.

Stotty,

I very much agree with the jist of your comments here. The thing that I've benefited from this website is the ability to determine exactly WHAT is the ideal, then to figure out how much of that can I incorporate into my own game and the games of my students. I liken it to the story of how people are trained to spot a counterfeit dollar bill. They look at the original so many times that they know what a good one looks like! The tools available here allow me to learn what that IDEAL is, leaving me then to figure out what to do with that model. I cannot tell you the level of confidence I've established because of what I'm able to concretely determine through the video library, teaching resources and conversation here. It has meant the world to me, and there's so much still to go through!!!

Greg Lumb
InsideOut Tennis

[tntenniswhiz]

Sensing a little sarcasm there, but no worries... I teach the modern techniques every chance I get. From the semi-open stance (twist, coil, leg drive), the hop-step, modern forehand and backhand, etc. With most students it works immediately, and I plan on continuing to teach these techniques every chance I get.

However, I just found that portion of the article to be very interesting, because I have one student in particular that is ranked in the top 100 in Florida 14's who did not know any of these techniques when we teamed up. She was very successful in tournament play. When I first taught her the Modern FH, I followed Coach Yandell's articles to a T. Initially, she experienced wrist pain, but thankfully over time that went away. Also, she was not aware of the variety of different stances in the pro game, especially the advantage of the semi-open stance for FH and BH.

To sum it up quickly, we have been working together for almost 6 months now and her results in tournament play have not been good and she has been losing most of her matches. Personally, I feel it has mostly to do with the mental side (we also practice mental toughness once a week), but I also feel its just a lot of new things at once. She's only 13, so I'm not worried. I strongly feel there will be a tipping point in the near future where it will all come together. That paragraph from Coach Yandell just sparked my brain a bit.

I'm sure even Sampras experienced some rough patches going from a two-handed backhand to a one hander...

Gin,
Please know that I intended no sarcasm at all, and in fact you've gone on to open up the discussion that I was originally intending! That discussion being, how, when and even if some of the ideal biomechanics we see and discuss on sites like this one are to be introduced to certain segments of our students. And if so when, and through what progressions. I deeply apologize if my question came across in any other spirit. I also GREATLY appreciate your honestly in describing your situation. It's certainly an example we all go through in some form, and you're willingness to share your own experience enriches us all as we hope to learn from each other's challenges. While we would like to think that our anticipated series by JY is going to be the be all, end all to which we can always refer for direction, I dare say it won't quite reach that mark! However, I do expect it to raise our level of awareness in this subject and be a huge catalyst for very important discussions just like this.

Greg Lumb
InsideOut Tennis

[John Yandell]

Gin,

Yeah that's the problem. My explanations of pro technique in Advanced Tennis relate to but are not necessarily exactly the same as what I would recommend so I wince when someone says they followed my advice to a T. I qualify things at many points in the articles and shy away from blanket advice about copying pros because everyone interprets things differently--and should--depending on ability, level, preference.

These upcomng articles will be my interpretations. So you can blame me but only after you follow what I say there (kidding). The trees in the forest aren't all the same.

[stotty]

I feel as though I have been somewhat of a victim of this at times. Teaching my top kids the modern techniques of the forehand and backhand has backfired at times. Resulting in more losses than wins. I hope you can make this clear in the upcoming articles. I am looking forward to it.

I understand exactly where you're coming from here. Sometimes the modern techniques are no better than old fashioned methods...sometimes they are not as good. I think it has a lot to do with the age and ability of those you are teaching. There is little point teaching middle-aged students modern techniques, nor to low-ability students of any age come to that. For young players with ability the coach should do his best to install modern techniques, certainly with ground shots...for volleys I'll stick to how it was taught 25 years ago thanks.

But it isn't always easy. Teaching the ATP forehand and the serve can be tricky. Sometimes I think I've got a stroke right with a student, then a few weeks later the shot starts to morph and things don't look quite so right. Other times things don't look right but then bed down and turn out better than I thought. This is coaching, you have to be awfully to control every aspect...and I am not sure anyone can.

Tennisplayer is a cutting edge website. I think it is the best website for coaches and players that has ever existed. The owner is dedicated and highly skilled yet never comes across even the slightest bit bigheaded. Many of the contributors on the forum are also very knowledgeable and skilled themselves. People are often on hand to help. Coaches don't tap into each other enough at times.

The point I would most like to make is this. Coaches all know a great forehand or serve when they see one, that's easy. The question is WHY is it so good? What makes Federer's and Nadal's forehand better than others on the tour? I can never answer those questions to myself when I watch the top players on the tour. After frequenting Tennisplayer for many years I believe these questions might be answered by biomechanics. Brian Gordon's work on the ATP forehand and his serve articles go a long way to explain why some methods work better than others. His articles break things down.

The big problem guys like us have is HOW to apply and go about teaching this wonderful knowledge. Teaching it is not always easy and coaches can run into difficulties. Like you, things have backfired on me as well at times...or don't always go as well as I would have hoped.

I am really hoping John's articles are going to help us all in this respect.

[ginuwineus26]

Ginu,

I'd like to hear a little more about your experiences teaching the techniques which resulted in losses? Are you saying you wouldn't do that again if you had the chance? Recalling the huge fall Sampras experienced going from a two-handed backhand to a one hander came to mind when I read your post. Just interested in hearing more!

Sensing a little sarcasm there, but no worries... I teach the modern techniques every chance I get. From the semi-open stance (twist, coil, leg drive), the hop-step, modern forehand and backhand, etc. With most students it works immediately, and I plan on continuing to teach these techniques every chance I get.

However, I just found that portion of the article to be very interesting, because I have one student in particular that is ranked in the top 100 in Florida 14's who did not know any of these techniques when we teamed up. She was very successful in tournament play. When I first taught her the Modern FH, I followed Coach Yandell's articles to a T. Initially, she experienced wrist pain, but thankfully over time that went away. Also, she was not aware of the variety of different stances in the pro game, especially the advantage of the semi-open stance for FH and BH.

To sum it up quickly, we have been working together for almost 6 months now and her results in tournament play have not been good and she has been losing most of her matches. Personally, I feel it has mostly to do with the mental side (we also practice mental toughness once a week), but I also feel its just a lot of new things at once. She's only 13, so I'm not worried. I strongly feel there will be a tipping point in the near future where it will all come together. That paragraph from Coach Yandell just sparked my brain a bit.

I'm sure even Sampras experienced some rough patches going from a two-handed backhand to a one hander...

[John Yandell]

Gin,

I will try. it's not black and white but I think there are progressions and options that always need to be considered as part of the art of coaching--and really at the end it is an art as much as science!

[tntenniswhiz]

I feel as though I have been somewhat of a victim of this at times. Teaching my top kids the modern techniques of the forehand and backhand has backfired at times. Resulting in more losses than wins. I hope you can make this clear in the upcoming articles. I am looking forward to it.

Ginu,

I'd like to hear a little more about your experiences teaching the techniques which resulted in losses? Are you saying you wouldn't do that again if you had the chance? Recalling the huge fall Sampras experienced going from a two-handed backhand to a one hander came to mind when I read your post. Just interested in hearing more!

[ginuwineus26]

I have never believed in the automatic, direct or immediate translation of all advanced pro elements into the developmental process for the vast majority of players. This something I have tried to make repeatedly clear. But with the excitement and inspiration triggered by the discoveries in this footage, that message has been on occasion lost, or even frequently lost.

I feel as though I have been somewhat of a victim of this at times. Teaching my top kids the modern techniques of the forehand and backhand has backfired at times. Resulting in more losses than wins. I hope you can make this clear in the upcoming articles. I am looking forward to it.

[John Yandell]

Correcto. Nothing changes on computers. Just the ipad and phone added...we are wading into the android mess but not sure what the outcome will be.

[major]

Androids?? Not well...too many operating system versions etc...some may others don't...we are trying to puzzle it out but the frame by frame which is critical for us isn't apparently widespread...

ok - but I still will be able to use the website on my laptop- right?

major

[sfrazeur]

How does the android phone work with the videos?

I can play videos but not frame-by-frame.

I use the Samsung Galaxy S II (ATT) the version prior to SkyRocket which uses different hardware. Operating system version 4.0.4

-Shaun