Australian Open 2018

[bottle]

[QUOTE=don_budge;n68964 I would like to tell the forum what a wonderful woman I married. I met her on match.com over thirteen years ago. There is a God.[/QUOTE]

She must be a saint.

[don_budge]

What the heck...while we are on the subject. Top twenty best points at the Australian Open. Hey...we are celebrating Roger Federer regaining the number one ranking, aren't we?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJcVDZrvirs

[don_budge]

I saw this point on EuroSport a half an hour ago before we went out to the stable to feed the horses. So when we came back inside I googled "Federer versus Fucsovics..."federer mishit to fuscovics overhead youtube" and lo and behold there it was.

Courtesy of don_budge...one point in the Australian Open that you may have missed. From the Living Proof versus Anybody file.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwIiAFWHjBI

I love bringing back this thread. When I went to look for it I didn't see it initially on the first page. Whenever I start a thread I put the "cool" icon on it. But stotty started this one in my absence since my computer was down. Wow...those were trying times I was going through. Computer crash, car trouble an leaving the job. But you know what...each and every obstacle we faced together and we made it to the other side. I would like to tell the forum what a wonderful woman I married. I met her on match.com over thirteen years ago. There is a God.

[arturohernandez]

It is interesting that the short slice backhand is such a clear weakness of the two hander.

Not so for Sampras, who was not known for having a particularly good 1HBH.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/pete-sampras/

[don_budge]

It's funny because I have the sense that some of these big guys might be more natural one handers. I know we debated whether you need a one hander to attack the net.

The fact that his backhand is funky and he has a really nice one handed volley also makes me think the two hander is constraining.

Just imagine Roger Federer with a two-handed backhand. Just the thought of it makes me imagine a player glued to the baseline...like all of the rest. It's fine to play two-handed. If that is what you want. But the game is limited right from the beginning. The all court game is a longer learning curve. Approaching the net is a science. Make it a philosophy too. An art even. Carving the ball in the air is another whole dimension.

Federer used to play serve and volley on every single second serve at Wimbledon. Number one...the game was engineered starting with the equipment then they started monkeying around with everything. Number two...the coaching was hijacked. The herd fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Marin Cilic struggles terribly with the short backhand...he doesn't quite know or understand what to do with that kind of ball. He hasn't been trained in this regard. Once you begin to imagine players such as Cilic, Berdych, Tsonga, Raonic, Kyrgios playing one handed, to mention just a few, it gets a bit scary. Each and everyone of these guys were potential Boris Becker's or Stefan Edberg's. Boris and Stefan weren't just bangers either...both could play on the dirt. There are better athletes on the tour than Federer but there isn't a single one of them that is trained to play the game the way it was meant to be played. Go back to Numbers one and two. Think about it.

[stotty]

Ivanisevic helped Cilic with his serve and it improved.

Again we are back to the issue of why coaches don't work to help players hit rhythmic serves.

I remember playing at a club in Frankfurt in 2015 in the mornings.

There was a coach out there teaching a really good junior to serve. The junior was whacking the serve.

But it seemed less fluid than I thought it should be.

I am sure at some point Cilic though he needed to hit the ball hard. And so he practiced this for hours.

Had he been taught to practice really slow and rhythmically in order to build speed, I think eventually it would have been a better outcome.

I know its easy for me to say because I just coach my own kids and none of them are pros or even college players.

But the emphasis on power and speed in the juniors is what eventually leads to bad serves on the pro tour.

His whole game is not fluid. But it could be. It would just require a coach to teach fluidity and incorporate that into the training.

Is this idealistic?

One thing that will probably dawn on you when teaching your own children is they cannot always carry out what you want. No matter how hard you try, you will be unable to get swing shapes or racket paths how you would like. To a certain extent players have their own DNA and wiring when it comes to tennis strokes and some players have far less malleability than others. This is why coaches will often opt for getting players to make key positions rather then worry too much about fluency or cosmetics. Rafa's backhand is as ugly as they come but very effective.

You could spend hours and hours coaching a child to serve but if the shot is not there you won't somehow find it. The student brings a lot to the table which the coach has no control of.

Every now and again a coach gets a talented player who is receptive and malleable, but they tend to be the exception rather than the norm.

[arturohernandez]

Ivanisevic helped Cilic with his serve and it improved.

Again we are back to the issue of why coaches don't work to help players hit rhythmic serves.

I remember playing at a club in Frankfurt in 2015 in the mornings.

There was a coach out there teaching a really good junior to serve. The junior was whacking the serve.

But it seemed less fluid than I thought it should be.

I am sure at some point Cilic though he needed to hit the ball hard. And so he practiced this for hours.

Had he been taught to practice really slow and rhythmically in order to build speed, I think eventually it would have been a better outcome.

I know its easy for me to say because I just coach my own kids and none of them are pros or even college players.

But the emphasis on power and speed in the juniors is what eventually leads to bad serves on the pro tour.

His whole game is not fluid. But it could be. It would just require a coach to teach fluidity and incorporate that into the training.

Is this idealistic?

[arturohernandez]

Ahhhh!!!!! It's nice to get some discussion going on the forum.

It's funny because I have the sense that some of these big guys might be more natural one handers. I know we debated whether you need a one hander to attack the net.

The fact that his backhand is funky and he has a really nice one handed volley also makes me think the two hander is constraining.

I just looked up his record and saw that he won four doubles tournaments as a junior.

I see many cases where Cilic waits for the ball and then pounds it from the baseline.

I am sure he would get passed more if he came in.

But just the threat at his height would make a huge difference.

Also not sure why he runs around so much...

[stotty]

Someone mentioned the Cilic backhand...

I always find Cilic slightly rushed in all departments of his game. He has less time than other players...or so it seems. His backhand is a little cramped as he tucks the elbows in at the start of the shot and doesn't hold them out that little bit more like Djokovic. He does sort the the mechanics out better later in the stroke however if you look carefully. His preparation is slightly late which no doubt makes him difficult to read.

But if you are going to learn a two-hander, Djokovic is the model, just as Roger is the model for the forehand.

On the human side I find Cilic a worried and anxious individual. His whole game has a bit of anxiety to it. "Who's the nervous, sweaty bloke", my wife said when she entered the room to fetch Pancho and put his lead on.

And yes it's a very good point that Cilic doesn't play quite to his physique. With a wingspan like that and the fact he is capable at the net, you would think getting to the net more might be a given.

[don_budge]

It's a rushed looking motion. He has a fairly low toss yet a full wind up. Added to this he has an early knee bend. So his whole serve looks odd in every aspect of the wind up stage. I don't like it much either. That said, I wouldn't like to face it.

I think if you are going to toss the ball low - and I guess there can be some advantages in doing so - then the swing needs to be abbreviated somewhat to match it.

I do think Cilic's height get's him out of jail.

It would be fun if John would use Marin Cilic's current serving motion possibly even in comparison with the one he was using at the U. S. Open when he defeated Roger Federer in the quarterfinals.

Either the backswing is abbreviated to accommodate the lower toss or the timing of the toss is altered. The release is a bit later. His tossing motion is awfully quick to. Even the multiple bounces in the pre-shot routine don't match the motion. If you are going to slap the thing into play you might as well rush through the pre-shot routine and really catch your opponent off guard. Not quick serving...but pick up the pace so that everything matches everything. Once you get into the rhythm you just keep serving bullets...machine gun style if you will.

But another thing that I noticed about Cilic is he has pretty good hands around the net. I mean...if he can manage to get himself into position there. I will never understand how a guy of this man's proportions is playing this game scrambling around in the backcourt when he could be making such an impression on his opponent at the net. But he would have to change his serving philosophy as well to play this kind of game. First serves in would be a critical factor without the fear of losing the rhythm.

There are some interesting possibilities about Marin. I definitely see him playing the one-handed backhand as well. It isn't an act of God or Magic to hit a one hand backhand as many are interpreting the Federer one-hander. It is like anything else a matter of technique and practice. This has to be done when the whole object of the development is not on the basis of winning or losing as a little tyke or as a promising junior who has everything to lose by switching from two-handed. This has to be part of the long range vision from the beginning. You must accept that the learning curve is longer in duration and plan accordingly.

It's like what Bobby Jones said about playing golf into a strong wind..."accept your loss of distance and hit the ball comfortably down the fairway".

[stotty]

The thing that really impressed me about Cilic...or you might say I was unimpressed with...was the speed of his backswing in his service motion. Way to quick. He was losing rhythm at the most important points in the match when he failed to consistently pour that first serve in with perhaps a little less speed but more accuracy and spin. At his height he should have a huge advantage on the serve but it didn't appear to be the case abasing Federer.

That quick backswing can be the kiss of death when the tension is mounting. The nerves start to take over and it just gets quicker and quicker. It can play havoc with your control. Not only that but in some of the side views of his serve he looked to be more awkward in the delivery of the racquet head to the ball. Less fluid. Interesting.

It's a rushed looking motion. He has a fairly low toss yet a full wind up. Added to this he has an early knee bend. So his whole serve looks odd in every aspect of the wind up stage. I don't like it much either. That said, I wouldn't like to face it.

I think if you are going to toss the ball low - and I guess there can be some advantages in doing so - then the swing needs to be abbreviated somewhat to match it.

I do think Cilic's height get's him out of jail.

[don_budge]

Arturohernandez -
Cilic's BH backswing is a little more elaborate than it needs to be. Cilics bring the racquet head up past his head and slightly opens the racquet face. But you are correct that it can be the cause of unforced errors. I noticed Cilic having difficulty going the racquet around quick enough when stressed (ex: When Federer hit body serves at him). Someone 6'6" shouldn't need such a high and complicated backswing.

Yeah he gets that backswing up there doesn't he? It looks to me like a left handed forehand...with the right hand on the racquet. He was playing it pretty darned flat with little margin for error. He made some errors too. Federer kept pouring it on with judicious use of the slice. At key points Federer would throw in that sliding ball...low and plenty of spin...around the service line at the most acute angle he could muster. Cilic made some really bad plays on that type of ball. This is a tactic that Federer has been using for many, many years against the two handed game. Making a decent living at it too. It is the weakness of the two handed game...the short, angled and sliding ball. Now you have opened up the court and you have options.

The thing that really impressed me about Cilic...or you might say I was unimpressed with...was the speed of his backswing in his service motion. Way to quick. He was losing rhythm at the most important points in the match when he failed to consistently pour that first serve in with perhaps a little less speed but more accuracy and spin. At his height he should have a huge advantage on the serve but it didn't appear to be the case abasing Federer.

That quick backswing can be the kiss of death when the tension is mounting. The nerves start to take over and it just gets quicker and quicker. It can play havoc with your control. Not only that but in some of the side views of his serve he looked to be more awkward in the delivery of the racquet head to the ball. Less fluid. Interesting.

[don_budge]

It was a shame they closed the roof for the Aussie final because there was no good reason for it.

Actually if the reason to close it was to give the advantage to Roger Federer it was a very smart decision. At least according to none other than Mats Wilander and no surprise...I actually agree with him.

Wilander suggested that the ATP or whoever it is that is setting up the tournament should be working to swing whatever advantage they can to Federer. He mentioned the quicker surfaces at the Australian and Wimbledon favouring the Federer style of play. There isn't a handful players together on the tour that can measure up collectively to the immense popularity of the Swiss Maestro.

There was a very good reason for closing that roof on the final but it might not be the one you want to think of.

[don_budge]

Roger's Road The 2018 Australian Open Title

A Bedene - Ranking 51
R Gasquet - Ranking 31
M Fucsovics - Ranking 80
T Berdych - Ranking 20
H Chung - Ranking 58
M Cilic - Ranking 6

Rafa Road to The 2017 US Open Title

D Lajovic - Ranking 85
Taro Daniel - Ranking 121
L Mayer - Ranking 59
A Dolgopolov - Ranking 64
A Rublev - Ranking 53
Del Potro - Ranking 28
K Anderson - Ranking 32

Once upon a time in tennis there was a big four...including Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic, Rafael Nadal and Andy Murray. These four were expected to be present and accounted for in every semifinal of any given Grand Slam. Not anymore. I don't Andy will ever be the same again. He has been away so long as it is and his recent surgery puts him further and further away from the point where he peaked. How long age was it now? Novak Djokovic may be back and possibly can improve on his best. He isn't that old...but does his style of play enhance or detract from his chances? Most definitely they detract. Rafael Nadal is the real question mark. He is never straightforwards about his physical status. Early on in the tournament he looked to be fit for fight but then he comes up lame and later complains of an obscure injury.

Nadal won the U. S. Open last year but the draw was handed to him. Roger Federer was not fit for their date in the semifinals so he took a powder against Del Potro leaving Nadal with a pretty smooth sail to the title. Look at Roger's draw for the Australian and it was cleared away with Djokovic going lame and disappearing to Chung who subsequently disappeared against Federer. This isn't giving the sport much in the way of a good reputation. The hoped for repeat of Nadal and Federer in the final was spoiled not by Nadal's disappearing act but by superior play by Marin. Cilic looked as if he was on the verge of kicking some Spanish ass when Nadal made the decision to throw in the towel.

Both tournaments are illustrating a point that I have been making for years...the talent pool is depleted. The fall after the "Big Four" is precipitous and it is unlikely that the pool is going to get any stronger. In fact it looks as if it is going to be shallower and shallower. Players like Raonic, Wawrinka, Nishikori along with Djokovic and Murray have been dropping like flies. What we may be seeing is that the style of play is prone to injuries after the miles add up.

[seano]

Arturohernandez -

Cilic's BH backswing is a little more elaborate than it needs to be. Cilics bring the racquet head up past his head and slightly opens the racquet face. But you are correct that it can be the cause of unforced errors. I noticed Cilic having difficulty going the racquet around quick enough when stressed (ex: When Federer hit body serves at him). Someone 6'6" shouldn't need such a high and complicated backswing.