Right from the start out of the gates it was one of two things. Either Roger lost his nerve looking down the barrel of the Novak Djokovic return of serve or he for some strange reason...played it soft. The serve wasn't there. What was the average mph on his first serves? He was serving up soft balls on the second and Novak was just tagging him. Roger managed to win his first service game but my fear that Novak was going to make him work came to fruition. He really struggled in that first game to hold serve and the writing was clearly on the wall. It ain't your night kid...said the fat man with the cigar in the dressing room.
Somewhere in this thread stotty and stroke are discussing the point of who wants it more. It appeared to me as if Roger didn't want it all. And his performance prompted the kind of discussion that that kind of performance would warrant. Is that what Federer wants? Does he want his opponents thinking that he is in full decline and he was taking it on the chin from an otherwise sharp opponent? What did Federer have to gain by winning? Not much when you take into consideration the broad depth of his career. He is only interested in Slams. Against an otherwise sharp Djokovic he gives him the limp leg and just rolls over. Djokovic has to believe he has his number now. Maybe...just maybe that is what Federer wants him and everyone else to think. He's done. He's through. His best days are behind him. They surely are that is for sure. His best days were probably wasted on that stupid 90 square racquet he was using since 2004 until 2014. He missed out on so many more Slams...what a monumental blunder.
Either way you look at it the end result will have little effect on either player. Novak is already reaching his form without this win. He managed a rather steely performance in this tournament going three sets four times and staring down Roger Federer in the final. He did say in an article that I read that Roger wasn't at his best and he wasn't moving anywhere near his best. True enough and the question becomes why. Why wasn't he? Was making the final all that he had set out to accomplish in Cincinnati? It looked like it was because after not losing his serve once in the tournament he suddenly lost it three times and it appeared that he lost it without much of an effort. That's what it looked like to me. Or he other side of the coin is that he was just not match tough enough to engage a fully engaged Novak Djokovic toe to toe. But it looked suspicious to me. The court was playing fast yet there was nothing to suggest that the Federer serve was making any kind of impression on Novak Djokovic. I saw Federer play Novak in similar condition at Dubai a year or two ago and he just took the racquet out of Novak's hands. Handcuffed him on the serve.
It's a wash. There was little to take away from that match except the fact that it might be that Roger is really in decline. Even so he makes the final which the other 60 players a bit envious. At his age it is no small feat.
It was a boring display of tennis too. With all of the high expectations it certainly didn't live up to its billing. It was so one sided that I went to sleep here in Sweden at 11:30 pm just after Djokovic broke back in the second set. I was already losing interest. First of all a positive comment about Novak Djokovic. This guy makes some remarkable gets and he has an uncanny ability of running down really tough balls and somehow getting the ball back in play where his opponent is nearly handcuffed with his ridiculously good defensive return. He is such a Houdini at escaping a situation that looks to be sign, sealed and delivered and just like that he is back on the offence. Did you see how routinely he took care of his serve except for the one careless game in the second set where he even double faulted to hand Federer a break? Then he just took it back as if it were written in a script. Novak is a tremendous talent at what he does and the game is certainly perfectly engineered for him with the big racquets that allows him to turn the racquet face upside down on his forehand. Most of the court surfaces favour his defence and counter punch style of play. He is the epic iconic modern day tennis player...yet he is practically inept playing in the forecourt or at the net. He doesn't come to the net unless he is guaranteed a sitter of a volley and he muffs his fair share of these. Yet he gets away with it.
Another thing that I like about Djokovic is that he started beating on Rafael Nadal like nobody else was beating on him. For this I would almost give him carte blanceh. But alas...there is something about Novak that I find as about as ultimately boring and irritating and you might just be able to guess what it is. What is with that infernal bouncing of the ball? That is just so sickening I cannot begin to articulate just how unnecessary it is. It makes me wonder just what kind of person would think that they have the right to make an opponent wait for him to go into motion each and every time he serves a point. If he misses his first serve now the opponent has to wait for the second. At one point when things were getting a bit crucial in the first set he bounced the ball seventeen times and that didn't include the little four or five ball bounce routine where he bounces the ball with the opposite side of the racquet for good measure. He is playing within the rules but he is also using the rules to his advantage and it is called gamesmanship. His counterpart Rafael Nadal does the same thing. They make the opponent wait and wait until they are out of patience and have lost any sense of rhythm for play. Another thing is the audience. Who would pay to watch some prima donna stand there and bounce the ball umpteen times before he finally gets ready to play.
Djokovic has got all of the titles. He has all of the money. He gets more than his share of his attention. But I don't like him. I don't admire him. I think he is using gamesmanship and if he isn't boring in the way that he plays the game he is boring period with his incessant bouncing of the ball before he serves. There is no logical reason that I can think of to bounce it that many times except to try his opponents patience and this my fellow forum contributors stinks of some really sucky gamesmanship. When I remember Novak Djokovic in the future I will of course remember that he won a lot of tournaments and made a lot of money. I will remember that he discovered a good strategy to put a good ass whipping on the other idiot who incessently bounces the ball before he serves. But most of all I will remember him for that very thing...he is the guy who incessently bounced the ball before he served and made his opponent wait the full entire legal limit before every point that he served. I'm afraid that I don't have that much respect for him after all.
2018 Western and Southern Open...ATP 500...Cincinnati, Ohio USA
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It's hard to disagree. But then again, many people said the same when he lost to Nadal in 2008 at Wimbledon. And also when he went on a slide because of injury. And then when he came back off injury and won Aussie Open many chalked it up as a fluke and his last hurrah. He won two more slams after that. It's easy to write him off, and if we keep believing he inevitably be will be. As the saying goes..."A hypochondriac will eventually be justified, at their funeral."
Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca RatonLeave a comment:
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I am not high on Zverev. He just seems like is perfectly built to ascend near the top of tennis but not quite to the very top.
I still think that the majority of slams are reserved for players within 6'1-6'3.
Below that and they are just not strong or tall enough and if they are mobility becomes an issue.
Above that they are big and strong but mobility is a BIG issue.
They are not able to physically get into the net and finish the point.
As soon as it becomes about playing inside the court they falter.
Big groundstrokes can only take someone so far even today.
If we look at the heights of GS champions the past 20 years and especially the last 10 we see very little deviation from this range.
DelPo Cilic and Wawrinka are exceptions on both sides.
If Zverev wins, it will be like DelPo's or Cilic's US Open. An exception that is unlikely to become the rule.
I think Tsitsipas is on the upper fringe and has more upside.
The most upside for me is Shapovalov but he might be a tad too small to make it to the very top.
So I think that Zverev is not likely to win because his style requires many long matches leading to fatigue and eventually him losing.
It's not really his fault. If only Mischa and Sascha were one person. Then we would have a grand slam champion.
https://www.topendsports.com/sport/t...-wimbledon.htmLast edited by arturohernandez; 08-20-2018, 09:35 AM.Leave a comment:
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If I were going to bet, which I would not, I would not pay the premium to bet on Novak, or even Rafa, certainly not 37 year old Fed. I would go with Zverev. I did not bet on the Cincy final. I picked Fed.Last edited by stroke; 08-20-2018, 09:21 AM.Leave a comment:
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In yesterdays form Rafa and Roger don't beat Novak, certainly not on a hard court, or even any court. Of the three, he has emerged the most dominant and perhaps even the best of the three. The big hitters (Wawrinka, Del Potro), on their best day, if they get it right, actually have more chance of beating Novak than Rafa or Roger do. Novak is just so technically good from the back and moves better than anyone else, certainly laterally.Novak has an overwhelming head to head vs Stan, but Stan at his absolute best can beat him. I cannot see Sampras fairing much better head to head vs Novak. Sampras relied so much on his serve, but Novak is the best returner I have ever seen. It is a big part of the relentless pressure in playing him. Sampras no doubt had a great career, but I would say at this point Novak has surpassed it.
It's tough to bring Sampras into the equation. It was a different game then. But you are probably right, Novak would probably pluck a few more serves back than anyone else could. The problem is the equipment has changed so much (especially strings) since then that comparison has become nye on impossible.Leave a comment:
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Novak is favorite right now, followed by Nadal, Fed, Zverev, and Dei PoLeave a comment:
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Agassi was as good as Novak in his day at returning. He didn't have the mobility but was built more like Stan.
And Sampras played when there were truly four different surfaces and playing styles.
I really think his fourteen is equivalent to Federer's and Laver's.
Even Roger knows there has been inflation due to strings, rackets, surfaces and improvements in training and health.
It's a thought experiment that will never happen.
Today though it looks like Novak may rise to dominate once again.
The US open will be very interesting...Leave a comment:
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Novak has an overwhelming head to head vs Stan, but Stan at his absolute best can beat him. I cannot see Sampras fairing much better head to head vs Novak. Sampras relied so much on his serve, but Novak is the best returner I have ever seen. It is a big part of the relentless pressure in playing him. Sampras no doubt had a great career, but I would say at this point Novak has surpassed it.Leave a comment:
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He is robotic. I have seen him twice in person and Djokovic is like a machine. There is really only one person who can put him on the back foot.
Wawrinka would simply push Djokovic back and back and back until he was either in the stands or would just miss. He is the only current player that is able to consistently beat Djokovic.
I feel like Sampras on a fast court would also just put relentless pressure on him.
Federer would need to play like that to have a chance but he is not the volleyer Sampras was and doesn't have the heaviness of shot Wawrinka has.
Nadal hits with spin but cannot push Djokovic back in the same way.
Even with new strings and everything, Sampras would be all over these backcourters.
He would not win all the time but they would HATE to play him and the anger and fear would make things at least even.
I still feel that Federer is trying to peak at the majors. He could take four months off after the US Open and not miss a beat.
My sense is that you will see him try and raise his level as high as possible for the US Open.
He hasn't won that one in a long time.
Here is hoping...Leave a comment:
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It is totally passionless tennis. Give me Agassi - Rafter, McEnroe - Connors, Borg - McEnroe, Nadal -Federer any day. Djokovic versus anybody is boring.Leave a comment:
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Djokovic at his best is a sight to behold. Defense is flawless, offense is impressive, his tactical acumen is spot on. No one does it better. Sure, people may have a deep passion and admiration for Federer and Nadal for their style and ability but everyone should respect Djokovic for the way he has managed to carve out an impressive career with winning records over both Nadal and Federer and the first man to win all 9 masters 1000 tournaments. He may be boring for some, robotic for others but ultimately its all about the W's. And he gets them.
Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca RatonLeave a comment:
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Novak had a completely different mindset than his previous match vs Cilic. It was good to see him at his best, mentally and his tennis. Zverev needs to use that Novak performance as a template for where he needs to be. No histrionics, just rock solid tennis.Leave a comment:
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At that level, Roger may not be able to keep up anymore. At the highest level he has dipped slightly. Novak hardly missed a beat save for a wobble at the start of the first set. No tantrums, no silly drop shots, no decision errors, just rock solid baseline tennis. His length was superb and negated much of Roger's arsenal. His serving, both first and second, was top notch.
I am convinced Roger has gone past his best. He really wanted it but his game collapsed in the end under the relentless strain. Novak is just younger and it really showed towards the end.Last edited by stotty; 08-20-2018, 03:46 AM.Leave a comment:
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