ATP Finals

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  • stotty
    replied
    Nadal v Stephanos

    Nadal 6-4 and 1-1 and looking very formidable at the moment. Nadal looks comfortable while Stephanos's game is on a knife-edge trying to keep up. I'm not sure his backhand is up to the task and I cannot see him breaking Nadal's serve anytime this year. He needs Nadal to have a serving blip.
    Last edited by stotty; 11-19-2020, 01:46 PM.

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  • stroke
    replied
    I do also feel like Novak is having a bit too many matches where he is performing below expectations. Thst being said, I just always go back to his record, what he has accomplished playing in an era with Fed and Nadal. I still shake my head at his accomplishments vs those 2. Fed has that stand alone perfect technique, and the mental game to go with it. Nadal to be honest has the left handedness to go with to me the best forehand of all time(which is a lot) along with the strongest mental game ever to me. And yet Novak, he has none of that, but there he is. Like Nadal, there is not much one could say to me he does better than Fed. Nadal the forehand(even though that is up for debate), and Novak, the backhand(even tough that is up for debate), and the return of serve, which is huge, but in the total toolbox of tennis, neither seems to stack up that favorably vs Fed.

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  • don_budge
    replied
    I have watched bits and pieces of a few of the matches. Nothing to sustain my interest. Saw a bit of Nadal vs. Thiem but it is less than compelling. This is the post modern era of tennis. The patterns of play are mind numbing monotonous and it doesn't seem to matter who takes the court. I was a decent amount of Djokovic and Medvedev and this business of Novak performing less than expected is becoming to be a less than rare event. Now I have seen it a couple of times. This is not a good trend.

    Without the audience this event is even less compelling than usual. The only match that really seems to count is the final. The rest of it is sort of like jockeying for position. Then there is the game changer...no Roger Federer. Federer more and more becomes larger than "The Living Proof" status with his absence. The is not one charismatic player left after he leaves the stadium. We all want Stefanos to step up and be that somebody but it doesn't seem to me that he knows how to fill those big shoes. The rest of them? Cookie cutter tennis players. Andrey Rublev? The noise he makes is becoming very familiarly annoying.

    The audience now becomes a missing link as well. Little did we know how boring this game has actually become. I had lunch with my protege, Gustaf, who is now pursuing the architecture program at the Gothenburg University. I coached him into this as I assessed his human attributes, experience and temperament. I couldn't be more proud of this young man. His entire family sort of became a Swedish family away from home for me as I wrote almost forty research papers with Gustaf's mother. Now he brings his projects to me to discuss and critique. Not that I know anything about architecture but I do know something about support and motivation. Coaching the game within the game. But he says much the same about a lack of audience and the post modern era. He sees the same thing in his studies...where to go with architecture after the modern era. After the industrial/technology era. My suggestion is to look into the past and connect the dots of the past to the present and into the future. Much as President Putin has exhibited in his restructuring of Russian society.

    Maybe I will watch a bit of Tsitsipas and Nadal. I keep looking for that spark in Stefanos. The one where he comes out and just kicks this idiots ass. They had a match down under in the semis of the Aussie Open that seems to have stalled Tsitsipas' career in some respects. He lost and came away saying that Nadal has a way of making you play bad..."that's a talent", he said of Nadal. I would like to see him reverse that trend if only in this exhibition like atmosphere in the Tour Finals. The tournament needs a shot in the arm badly. You cannot underestimate the Federer effect when he is in the draw.

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  • stroke
    replied
    On tap today Rublev vs Thiem and Tsitsipas vs Nadal. Thiem and Nadal favored. Surprisingly to me, Nadal is a strong favorite at a 71% implied probability of winning.

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  • stotty
    replied
    You have to believe it's going to be harder for Novak going forward with players like Medvedev and Thiem clipping at his heels. At 33, and with that gruelling, monotonous game of his, he is going to have to start getting strategic. Letting last night's match with Medvedev go is probably a wise move, assuming he gets past Zverev. He can still win the tournament. After all why show Medvedev everything you've got in a foreplay match. Wiser to hold back, converse energy, and unleash everything he's got for a potential final with the same player...Medvedev.

    Nadal did let a match go against Schwartman in Rome. Conservation is starting to enter Nadal's mind too. They can both learn a thing from Roger here.

    I wonder how good Medvedev is when the same game is thrown back at him...the mirror strategy as John Yandell calls it. You have to believe he is better at soaking up pace as oppose to dishing it out. Just a thought. You fancy Roger could unlock Medvedev's door rather handily.

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  • stroke
    replied
    He could definitely learn something about effort day in day out from Rafa, the gold standard of going all in, "embracing the pain". That was about as impressive a loss as one will ever see yesterday vs Thiem. And all credit to Thiem also.

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  • stotty
    replied
    Disappointing from Novak's point of view. He was happy to let it go. It's a risky ploy as he risks being knocked out if he wobbles against Zverev. Good job his fans weren't there...cost of the tickets ain't cheap.

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  • stroke
    replied
    Not pretty by Novak. A bit like his FO loss to Rafa. Just not willing to go all in from the 1st point on. That being said, he is still the 3rd best of all time I guess.

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  • stroke
    replied
    Originally posted by stotty
    Djokovic v Medvedev

    Medvedev a break up at 4-3 in the first. Very high standard but slightly dull at the same time. How many mesmerising 20 stroke rallies can you actually watch? I wish Novak would stop bailing out in rallies with his backhand drop shot...always hits it in the same place...down the line.

    Novak doesn't seem to fancy going through the lung-busting rallies today. He will have to grind it out to win.
    So true. Nadal went all in yesterday in his very tough loss to Thiem. As you said, Novak is just not willing thus far to play every point as though it is the most important thing in his life. Way to much bailing out.

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  • stotty
    replied
    Medvedev is a set and 3-0 up and hacking away like mad...no adventure in his play whatsoever but he is soaking everything up Novak throws at him. Novak doesn't seem to fancy digging deep and seems not prepared to slug out endless 20-odd stroke rallies. I think he might if it was the final though.

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  • stotty
    replied
    Djokovic v Medvedev

    Medvedev a break up at 4-3 in the first. Very high standard but slightly dull at the same time. How many mesmerising 20 stroke rallies can you actually watch? I wish Novak would stop bailing out in rallies with his backhand drop shot...always hits it in the same place...down the line.

    Novak doesn't seem to fancy going through the lung-busting rallies today. He will have to grind it out to win.
    Last edited by stotty; 11-18-2020, 01:05 PM.

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  • stroke
    replied
    Today up is Alex vs Diego and Novak vs Medvedev. Alex and Novak are favored of course. Novak and Medvedev could be a very interesting match, but it will be hard to top the every single point contested quality of yesterday's Thiem vs Nadal.

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  • stotty
    replied
    Stefanos v Rublev

    Tennis is a funny game. Stephanos was head and shoulders the better player for the first set and 98% of the second...then it all went pear-shaped in under a minute. He made hard work of it but Stephanos made it passed the finish line in the end. When he is playing well he plays with more authority than anyone out there. So attacking and mentally assertive. Exciting to watch too. I'm glad he won. Rublev is the most limited player in the ATP finals. He's looked inexperienced and out of his depth so far.

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  • stroke
    replied
    Originally posted by stotty
    Nadal v Thiem

    Stunningly good match played at a relentless tempo. Thiem averaged 88 mph off his backhand wing in the second set tiebreak. Talk about upping your game in the clutch...and some of his inside out forehands at the key moments were amazing. The great thing about a Nadal v Thiem match is you are guaranteed flat out effort from start to finish. Once again Rafa shows he has the best overhead on the tour...along with Roger. Rafa's first serve percentage was low by his standards but both men worked well behind their second serves. There is a lesson in there somewhere for Zverev one feels.

    Thiem hit 37 winners, twelve more than Rafa. Great match by Thiem. He really went for it.

    Looking forward to watching the handsome Greek versus Russia's Raskolnikov...Rublev. I'm rooting for the Greek.
    Spot on Stotty, back to the subject at hand. Thiem was totally engaged, playing every point as if it was the most important thing in his life, as did Rafa obviously. A huge win for Thiem.

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  • stotty
    replied
    Nadal v Thiem

    Stunningly good match played at a relentless tempo. Thiem averaged 88 mph off his backhand wing in the second set tiebreak. Talk about upping your game in the clutch...and some of his inside out forehands at the key moments were amazing. The great thing about a Nadal v Thiem match is you are guaranteed flat out effort from start to finish. Once again Rafa shows he has the best overhead on the tour...along with Roger. Rafa's first serve percentage was low by his standards but both men worked well behind their second serves. There is a lesson in there somewhere for Zverev one feels.

    Thiem hit 37 winners, twelve more than Rafa. Great match by Thiem. He really went for it.

    Looking forward to watching the handsome Greek versus Russia's Raskolnikov...Rublev. I'm rooting for the Greek.

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