Interactive Forum May 2022: Carlos Alcaraz Forehand

[jimlosaltos]

https://youtu.be/LnmlPpyETUU

It looks like he does his forehand grip change after his off hand separates, which prolongs the grip change until the last possible instance, for disguise. As you said, it appears to be a one handed loose grip feel grip change.

Thank you stroke, and doctorhl. Very helpful, to me at least.

The other thing that stands out to me (a weekend hacker but long time fan/observer) is something very basic that many of you teach, but often is ignored in the pros -- he hits his drop shots high with lots of margin (unless it is a net-to-net face off). He also gives himself lots of margin in his targets (the Miami graphic I posted earlier). If one can be successful with drop shots having that much margin, surely they'd work at all levels.

Heck, as I used to say about Alexandr Dolgopolov's drop shots, I've seen lobs in USTA matches that were lower than his drop shots <g>.

But, then we see Ons Jabeur and Stef Tsitsipas try to trickle low balls off the net tape (Ons with more success than Stef).

Helps, of course, to have Carlos' power off the ground to back people up.

[stroke]

https://youtu.be/LnmlPpyETUU

It looks like he does his forehand grip change after his off hand separates, which prolongs the grip change until the last possible instance, for disguise. As you said, it appears to be a one handed loose grip feel grip change.

[doctorhl]

As Jimlo Saltos mentioned, somebody please find some footage of someone loaded for the topspin fh, then camera picking up last minute grip change for a drop shot. It has to be a one handed “centrifical-chunk”grip change for most pros (unless the off hand stays on racket long enough to allow a loose racket hand grip change as perhaps Alcatraz may be doing).

[jimlosaltos]

When he played Nadal, 6 games in, TennisTV shotspot showed their forehand numbers thus far. Alcaraz was hitting his average forehand 10 mph's faster with 240 more rpm's on his forehand vs Nadal's.

Wow.

[stroke]

When he played Nadal, 6 games in, TennisTV shotspot showed their forehand numbers thus far. Alcaraz was hitting his average forehand 10 mph's faster with 240 more rpm's on his forehand vs Nadal's.

[John Yandell]

Seano,
Hope he beats Zverev

chua,
Good question... no idea! It's impossible in my view to definitively corelate technique and injury...

[chuahman]

Very relevant points with left hand remaining on racquet for stretch and disguise for drop shot. As the left arm remains very brief, Alcatraz has excellent timing of ball for spacing. Does he lose the benefit of spacing?

In consideration of straight arm contact certainly encourages early contact and power, would it result in creating too much stress on elbow as Tsitsipas has had op on elbow early on his career. Novak's elbow intervention was in his early thirties?

[seano]

John -

You picked a good month to feature Alcatraz's forehand.

[jimlosaltos]

Novak does that as well…shoot I do that on my forehand. When you use a semi western grip or beyond it feels very natural to have the tip of the racquet forward. Yes, typically players have the double bend, but don’t probably 85-90% of players on tour use a double bend. Setting a straight arm structure out of that preparation wouldn’t be hard. I know if I wanted to with two weeks on the ball machine I could make mine straight.
In the photo look how long the left hand stays on the frame…that’s the piece of his forehand that’s different. He is still holding onto it when the racquet is past his back shoulder! The example where it drops off early he’s playing a ridiculous reverse running forehand…everyone would use more of a return of serve preparation for that ball.
i tinkered with holding onto the racquet to my back shoulder in my junior program today and there was no way I could get a full left arm stretch in. No time!! The role of the left arm was completely rotational. I never truly went after a ball but I definitely felt an easier access to a heavier ball than my usual hand separation slightly past mid chest. I will say it created a different tempo or rhythm to the stroke. I liked it and could see potential for a “game day” turn but would be awful for 95% of my clients. I’ll stick with my slightly beyond Johnny Mac grip for the bulk of my rally work hahahaha!

If you want a visual "Palette Refresher", here's his-Fedness in glorious slomo
Straight arm all the way out <g>

https://twitter.com/fedrermoment/status/1522199132542226434

[jthb1021]

I don’t either! But if you hold on that long you don’t have the time for the prominent left arm stretch. The left arm has the same role it just doesn’t stretch out the same way.

[John Yandell]

jthb,
I don't think we should abandon the left arm stretch quite yet...

[jthb1021]

Novak does that as well…shoot I do that on my forehand. When you use a semi western grip or beyond it feels very natural to have the tip of the racquet forward. Yes, typically players have the double bend, but don’t probably 85-90% of players on tour use a double bend. Setting a straight arm structure out of that preparation wouldn’t be hard. I know if I wanted to with two weeks on the ball machine I could make mine straight.
In the photo look how long the left hand stays on the frame…that’s the piece of his forehand that’s different. He is still holding onto it when the racquet is past his back shoulder! The example where it drops off early he’s playing a ridiculous reverse running forehand…everyone would use more of a return of serve preparation for that ball.
i tinkered with holding onto the racquet to my back shoulder in my junior program today and there was no way I could get a full left arm stretch in. No time!! The role of the left arm was completely rotational. I never truly went after a ball but I definitely felt an easier access to a heavier ball than my usual hand separation slightly past mid chest. I will say it created a different tempo or rhythm to the stroke. I liked it and could see potential for a “game day” turn but would be awful for 95% of my clients. I’ll stick with my slightly beyond Johnny Mac grip for the bulk of my rally work hahahaha!

[jeremy93]

And rooting around through the dusty corners of my hard drive I couldn't find examples actually holding the racket on take back but these three all have bent arms. I created this trio to accompany a post about an article by the sorely-missed Tom Perrotta of WSJ on the "Top Spinners" in tennis in 2015, TK4, Sock and Rafa, all then averaging in the 3,300-3,400 range.

I believe Rafa experimented with this take back at Uncle Toni's insistence, then dropped it? Please feel free to correct my hazy memory.

filedata/fetch?id=97285&d=1651706193&type=thumb

Interesting. I have never seen Rafa with this take back

[jimlosaltos]

And rooting around through the dusty corners of my hard drive I couldn't find examples actually holding the racket on take back but these three all have bent arms. I created this trio to accompany a post about an article by the sorely-missed Tom Perrotta of WSJ on the "Top Spinners" in tennis in 2015, TK4, Sock and Rafa, all then averaging in the 3,300-3,400 range.

I believe Rafa experimented with this take back at Uncle Toni's insistence, then dropped it? Please feel free to correct my hazy memory.

filedata/fetch?id=97285&d=1651706193&type=thumb

[jimlosaltos]

For what it's may be worth, it varies. Here are 3 screen caps from John's vid

First example: Off arm goes back (and tip points forward ala Jack Sock, Kokkinakis, Kyrgios etc)

filedata/fetch?id=97280&d=1651703109&type=thumb

Then on another forehand, he drops his off arm early, with the racket at his waist.

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filedata/fetch?id=97282&d=1651703109&type=thumb

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