ATP Finals

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  • stroke
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2006
    • 5156

    #31
    Fritz in the final, certainly no surprise to me. Sinner of course a huge favorite, but I could see Fritz beating him. Fritz has the belief in his game.

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    • stotty
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2009
      • 6634

      #32
      Originally posted by stroke
      Fritz in the final, certainly no surprise to me. Sinner of course a huge favorite, but I could see Fritz beating him. Fritz has the belief in his game.
      It's big ask. Sinner is a class above everyone right now. But let's root for Taylor. He's a great player and role model...terrifically good attitude.
      Stotty

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      • stroke
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2006
        • 5156

        #33


        One break by Sinner to take 1st set in front of a sellout soccer type crowd.

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        • stotty
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2009
          • 6634

          #34
          Sinner is so relentlessly aggressive. His first serve has been terrific and he is onto Fritz's second serve every time...piling pressure on Novak-style. Not sure how Fritz can get a foothold in the match other than holding serve and hoping for something to turn up...which he is doing...just about.
          Stotty

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          • jimlosaltos
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2011
            • 4151

            #35
            Originally posted by stotty
            Sinner is so relentlessly aggressive. His first serve has been terrific and he is onto Fritz's second serve every time...piling pressure on Novak-style. Not sure how Fritz can get a foothold in the match other than holding serve and hoping for something to turn up...which he is doing...just about.
            Sinner is out serving the player that out-served Zverev.

            Fritz has no Plan B.

            Comment

            • stotty
              Senior Member
              • Jan 2009
              • 6634

              #36
              Too good. No one out there to touch Sinner at the moment.
              Stotty

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              • stroke
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2006
                • 5156

                #37
                Sinner, the time thief, is just too good. No one takes away time out there like Sinner, taking the ball on so early and hitting so big off both sides. Fed is the closest time thief I have seen next to Sinner.

                Comment

                • jimlosaltos
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2011
                  • 4151

                  #38
                  Sinner won the most points in every shot-length category -- short rallies, medium, long.

                  filedata/fetch?id=105946&d=1731870041&type=thumb

                  Sinner's groundstroke winners are near sidelines, wide.

                  filedata/fetch?id=105944&d=1731870041&type=thumb

                  Sinner first serve winners are either aces almost or on the sidelines, while his non-ace winners aren't as near the lines as Fritz's but are shorter and, again, wider.

                  filedata/fetch?id=105945&d=1731870041&type=thumb

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                  Last edited by jimlosaltos; 11-17-2024, 11:05 AM.

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                  • jimlosaltos
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2011
                    • 4151

                    #39
                    I believe, without checking carefully, this gets Jannik Sinner to 70 wins on the year ( Turin adds 3 in RR 2 in single elimination) and 7 titles, incl 2 majors.
                    He this did while losing to only 4 people, lowest ranked 12, only 1 outside the top ten. { wo & r not incl per ATP }


                    Jannik Sinner
                    70-6

                    Loses to only 4 people, lowest 12, only 1 outside the top ten. Three losses to Alcaraz.
                    Alcaraz(3)
                    Rublev(8)
                    Medvedev (5)
                    Alcaraz(3)
                    Auger-Aliassime (35) wo
                    Tsitsipas (12)
                    Alcaraz(2)​

                    Let's compare that to his putative rival Carlos Alcaraz ( who did win a pair of majors, which isn't chopped liver) and 4 titles.


                    Carlos Alcaraz
                    53-12

                    Losses to thirteen players, only Zverev twice, lowest ranked 74, only 3 in top ten. Alcaraz beat Sinner 3 times.
                    Zverev (2)
                    Ruud (7)
                    Humbert (18)
                    Machac (33)
                    de Zanderschlup (74)
                    Monfils(46)
                    Djokovic (2)
                    Draper(31)
                    Rublev(8)
                    Dimitrov(12)
                    Monteiro (117) ret
                    Jarry (21)
                    Zverev (6)​

                    Zverev finished at 69 - 21, I believe, with 2 titles and 2nd rank.

                    #
                    Last edited by jimlosaltos; 11-17-2024, 11:17 AM.

                    Comment

                    • stroke
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2006
                      • 5156

                      #40
                      https://www.thetennisgazette.com/new...ovak-djokovic/

                      Ruud telling it like it is.

                      Comment

                      • stroke
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2006
                        • 5156

                        #41

                        Comment

                        • jimlosaltos
                          Senior Member
                          • Jan 2011
                          • 4151

                          #42
                          ATP claims the Sinner-Fritz match had the highest combined shot "quality" per their metrics.
                          Curiously, both players stats are below the highest ones they published for 2023.
                          Make of that what you will.

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                          x filedata/fetch?id=105952&d=1731953654&type=thumb

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                          filedata/fetch?id=105951&d=1731953654&type=thumb



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                          Last edited by jimlosaltos; 11-18-2024, 10:16 AM.

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                          • jimlosaltos
                            Senior Member
                            • Jan 2011
                            • 4151

                            #43
                            Jeff Sackman, Tennis Abstract's nearly year end ELO ranking show how far Sinner has separated from the pack.

                            If you're not familiar with Elo, it's a method of rating players by the quality of opponents they beat. Sort of like old tennis rankings where you got more points for beating Laver than some newbie. Elo is the standard model for chess, since players from throughout the world have to be ranked even though many haven't played each other. You'll note that Djokovic finishes second here, despite falling to 7 in the ATP rankings, with few matches only one title on the year.

                            Jeff wrote: "Jannik is just the 12th man since the early 1970s to reach an Elo rating over 2300. He leapfrogged Vilas's and Agassi's peaks with his performance in Turin."

                            filedata/fetch?id=105955&d=1731953972&type=thumb

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                            Last edited by jimlosaltos; 11-19-2024, 09:55 AM.

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                            • stroke
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2006
                              • 5156

                              #44
                              Great stuff Jim. I love the quantitative numbers. Love the chess reference. I am in to backgammon, and the same kind of quantitative evaluation numbers are there also.
                              Last edited by stroke; 11-18-2024, 03:03 PM.

                              Comment

                              • jimlosaltos
                                Senior Member
                                • Jan 2011
                                • 4151

                                #45
                                Originally posted by stroke
                                Great stuff Jim. I love the quantitative numbers. Love the chess reference. I am in to backgammon, and the same kind of quantitative evaluation numbers are there also.
                                Thanks !

                                Comment

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