Brisbane ATP 250

[jimlosaltos]

It will not ever be solved until the market dictates it.

I was about to write "yes", then I paused. I wonder if the conflicts of interest in tennis are so severe and the system so sclerotic it can't respond to market demands.

Witness the ATP and WTA being dumped by the largest sports network in the US because, in ESPN's own words, the matches are too long, the schedules too uncertain, and sports like children's baseball outdraw the ATP/WTA. And the response is ...

Meanwhile back to the "Lucky Loser" theme -- players are dropping like flies in Australia. Seven (7) lucky losers played last night, two won, and a rare event occurred -- one match (Hobart) featured two LLs meeting.

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[neilchok]

I think player should be penalized for withdrawing in higher matches, unless an obvious injury. If he plays in the Australian Open it is a complete joke.

[stotty]

I was about to write "yes", then I paused. I wonder if the conflicts of interest in tennis are so severe and the system so sclerotic it can't respond to market demands.

Witness the ATP and WTA being dumped by the largest sports network in the US because, in ESPN's own words, the matches are too long, the schedules too uncertain, and sports like children's baseball outdraw the ATP/WTA. And the response is ...

Meanwhile back to the "Lucky Loser" theme -- players are dropping like flies in Australia. Seven (7) lucky losers played last night, two won, and a rare event occurred -- one match (Hobart) featured two LLs meeting.

filedata/fetch?id=106294&d=1736273788&type=thumb

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Don't take this the wrong way but over the pond we see this as an American thing. You like (in our view) fast games with lots of scoring, like basketball and your football. The biggest game in the world by a mile is soccer. In soccer, matches are much lower scoring and sometimes no team scores at all, which is why it has never taken off (in our view) in America. Long tennis matches suffer the same fate. Over here long matches are fine. America has its own sports but few other countries play them, they are mostly domestic. Vast swathes of America seem to like fast scoring games, mindless action movies, and Donald Trump; the latter two are hard to comprehend.

[stotty]

Yup. It's a problem that pro tennis has never solved.

One proposal is to use the "luck loser" model for the finals, i.e. if one of the players or, heavens forbid, both can't play the semifinal losers step in. Various ideas on comp model.

A problem is that the way pro tournaments are scheduled, the semifinal losers are often already on a plane to the next tournament

Similar issues happen with team tennis events. Take the upcoming Laver Cup San Francisco, where the four-figure lower bowl seats might be for one, lonely doubles match, or four matches. Risk entirely placed on the ticket holder.

Wimbledon is the only pro tennis tournament I can think of even makes an attempt at reasonable ticket refunds, say for rain outs. But I don't tink they cover this either.

Wimbledon do give refunds if you see less than 30 minutes play on the day of your ticket. In the south east of England it's a reasonably safe bet because it rarely rains all day. Mostly they get showers or it rains for a 2 or 3 hours then stops.

I get neilchok's disappointment. Reilly may just be protecting himself for the US Open. It's hard to see why he would do that as Brisbane was winnable whereas the US Open probably isn't. Better to lift a trophy than go out in round 3.

I don't think there is any way round the anticlimax of a player withdrawing in a final. Whatever you lay on as a substitute will never have the same value. Unless they rolled Roger out, of course!

[jimlosaltos]

I don't think there is any way round the anticlimax of a player withdrawing in a final. Whatever you lay on as a substitute will never have the same value. Unless they rolled Roger out, of course!

Amusing idea. I can see fans rooting for a withdrawal so they can see Fed

Chant: "Tank. Tank. Tank. Tank ... "

[doctorhl]

Don't take this the wrong way but over the pond we see this as an American thing. You like (in our view) fast games with lots of scoring, like basketball and your football. The biggest game in the world by a mile is soccer. In soccer, matches are much lower scoring and sometimes no team scores at all, which is why it has never taken off (in our view) in America. Long tennis matches suffer the same fate. Over here long matches are fine. America has its own sports but few other countries play them, they are mostly domestic. Vast swathes of America seem to like fast scoring games, mindless action movies, and Donald Trump; the latter two are hard to comprehend.

Your observation of an American short attention span is, unfortunately, accurate. I wonder how this trait translates for European coaches who have coached American players. Grinding on the clay doesnt fit the American ADHD psyche very well.

[stotty]

Your observation of an American short attention span is, unfortunately, accurate. I wonder how this trait translates for European coaches who have coached American players. Grinding on the clay doesn't fit the American ADHD psyche very well.

I am not sure this is indicative of American tennis players, more the population. Tennis players are usually a product of the court they learnt to play on during their formative years. I imagine American clubs are mostly hard court facilities given the type players that come generally come of out of the American system.

I do go to America once a year and have sat with Americans during football games and basket ball games. There's an expectation that goals will be imminent all the time and everyone seems to like that. I can see why they might soccer duller from that point of view.

Tennis can be an incredibly dull game to watch at times. It's the bigger games where there are big prizes and egos at stake that make it all work for me. That said, I love to watch talented players of all levels. I love players that are a little bit special even if they aren't world class.

[jimlosaltos]

Don't take this the wrong way but over the pond we see this as an American thing. You like (in our view) fast games with lots of scoring, like basketball and your football. The biggest game in the world by a mile is soccer. In soccer, matches are much lower scoring and sometimes no team scores at all, which is why it has never taken off (in our view) in America. Long tennis matches suffer the same fate. Over here long matches are fine. America has its own sports but few other countries play them, they are mostly domestic. Vast swathes of America seem to like fast scoring games, mindless action movies, and Donald Trump; the latter two are hard to comprehend.

All valid BUT the media issues cross over all sports. Major league baseball, the National Football League, the NBA -- every major league is making rule and enforcement changes to speed up the game. Meanwhile, tennis hides behind sticking to tradition when in face tennis matches are getting progressively longer every year. As an ATP player, I believe it was Giles Simon?, said after a 6 hour Australian Open final, "I wouldn't watch any match for 6 hours, except maybe Fed vs Rafa, but even then ... "

[stotty]

All valid BUT the media issues cross over all sports. Major league baseball, the National Football League, the NBA -- every major league is making rule and enforcement changes to speed up the game. Meanwhile, tennis hides behind sticking to tradition when in face tennis matches are getting progressively longer every year. As an ATP player, I believe it was Giles Simon?, said after a 6 hour Australian Open final, "I wouldn't watch any match for 6 hours, except maybe Fed vs Rafa, but even then ... "

I think the game just need speeding up by going back to how it used to be: remove the chairs at changeovers and make play continuous, no MTO's, no toilet breaks, no towelling down, and only 15 seconds between points. That would speed things up quite a bit.

[jimlosaltos]

I think the game just need speeding up by going back to how it used to be: remove the chairs at changeovers and make play continuous, no MTO's, no toilet breaks, no towelling down, and only 15 seconds between points. That would speed things up quite a bit.

Halleluah !

[neilchok]

I think they should just switch grand slams to 2 out of 3 or potentially 4 sets and one tiebreaker, maybe I am the only one. Last set no tiebreaker. I think that potentially would reduce the need to be in perfect shape, maybe forcing people to work more on skills, rather than winning just on fitness. That potentially also could keep older players maybe in the game longer.

6 hours I can drive halfway up the coast of California.

That is a lot of time to take over the weekend or weeknights. Most sporting events are max 2-3 hours. Normally 1 hr game, and then the rest on tv timeouts.

[jimlosaltos]

I think they should just switch grand slams to 2 out of 3 or potentially 4 sets and one tiebreaker, maybe I am the only one. Last set no tiebreaker. I think that potentially would reduce the need to be in perfect shape, maybe forcing people to work more on skills, rather than winning just on fitness. That potentially also could keep older players maybe in the game longer.

6 hours I can drive halfway up the coast of California.

That is a lot of time to take over the weekend or weeknights. Most sporting events are max 2-3 hours. Normally 1 hr game, and then the rest on tv timeouts.

Agreed. Can quibble about format.