Fade vs Draw

[jeffreycounts]

Let's discuss Chuck Tomlin's article, "Fade vs Draw"

[doctorhl]

Great article. I often wondered about that fade that Federer would hit on his down the line backhands and I even learned to hit some fades on my own one hander. Anyone have some court level, rear view, one hand bh or fh footage they can share? Does the two hander allow you to hit all four of those ball directions easier than the one hander?

[airforce1]

Great article. I often wondered about that fade that Federer would hit on his down the line backhands and I even learned to hit some fades on my own one hander. Anyone have some court level, rear view, one hand bh or fh footage they can share? Does the two hander allow you to hit all four of those ball directions easier than the one hander?

I've done quite a bit of teaching with both the Fade and Draw, since they each play a big role the our CTM Shot Matching System. I'd say from my experience, the 2 hander does make it easier to hit all the Diagonal TopSpins we are looking to develop. While Federer was amazing at it, I find the Draw much harder to hit with a one hander than the 2 hander. I know some of the coaches who where involved in helping Federer work on using his Fade better on the High bounces, right before Roger went on a 6 of 7 win streak against Nadal, later in his career.

Maybe someone can link us to some good high res video from the site, but there is very good video like this to view to see a lot of horizontal action on shots.

https://youtu.be/P9hoJmL8Dlc?si=H6JKltG3qpfB_dss

Chuck

[doctorhl]

I suspect this clip is showing a one handed backhand draw. The camera angle will need to be somewhere in this vicinity to be able to s?e it in 2D. Help Jim and Jeff!!

[doctorhl]

Warwrinka Draw https://youtu.be/gT6caIBbl1E

[airforce1]

Warwrinka Draw https://youtu.be/gT6caIBbl1E

I would agree this is a subtle, Driving Bh Draw.
Most Draws do tend to be a bit more subtle on avg except when we see the extreme versions like the Nadal Banana shot.

[jeremy93]

So the fade is when the ball moves from inside to outside and the draw is when the ball moves from outside to inside the court?

[airforce1]

So the fade is when the ball moves from inside to outside and the draw is when the ball moves from outside to inside the court?

To put a slightly Finer point on it, they are defined "by the spin they have" not the curve that will often result in the lateral movement of the ball. Some shots are such that they have the spin of a Fade or Draw, but you may not be able to see the movement.

But no, the movement of a CC Fade would bring it back inside.
A Fade hit DTL will be expected to bend towards that sideline though

[jeffreycounts]

I was watching a table tennis instructional video Forehand Loop Training for Table Tennis and was pretty shocked when it got to a section called "Hooking & Fading". The instructor, Brian Pace, talks about contacting the outside of the ball for the "hook" and contacting the inside of the ball for the "fade" to make it "break to the right. This is exactly what Chuck is talking about in tennis.

Here is quick example of Brian hooking the ball.