Interactive Forum: May 2008 Pete Sampras Wide Slice

[airforce1]

Stickman,
bet you thought "ER" was Emergency Room, didn't you.

[uspta146749877]

An Interesting Serve Analysis

Hyperextension = Extension beyond the normal range.

Common examples of spinal and hip hyperextension are the "cobra" and "upward facing dog" yoga poses. Just put them in Google and you'll get images.

because hip hyperextension and spine hyperextension usually accompany each other much like arm abduction at the shoulder joint and protraction of the scapula it's usually difficult to tell how much of the range of motion you see in a pose is related to each individual motion.

ER is just an abbreviation for External rotation. Rotation of the Arm at the shoulder joint, away from the midline of the body.

Go to the High speed archive and find a slow motion of Federer serving in front view and look at how far his arm externally rotates compared to Sampras. It looks to me to be around 20 degrees more for Sampras.

Different subject but worth seeing about serve

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2..._GRAPHIC.html#

From some reasons the link above does NOT work.
My post below has TWO links which do work

[EricMatuszewski]

Dead link

Julian,
Your link is dead.

Include title and date of the article or better yet a summary.

[EricMatuszewski]

Hip over Hip/ Shoulder over Shoulder movement

Bruce is one of the Fathers of tennis biomechanics in my mind. The animation is well done. I wish we could all produce that kind of clarity in communication in our posts, but that takes time and $$$.

The most important and possibly least talked about aspects that Bruce mentions is the...

Hip over Hip and consequentially shoulder over shoulder movement

This is something I've made a point to highlight on this site for the 2 years I've been on it when ever I talk about the serve.

Sampras is one of the great models of this hip over hip/ shoulder over shoulder movement. I believe that it directly influenced his high spin to speed ratio and thus his great success in holding serve.

Interestingly, Anna says she'd like to hit more flat serves but she needs to be patient, implying that more kick serves would save her body.

I just about wore myself out trying to argue this to the establishment a couple years ago. People were hung up on the idea that a kick serve was like a curve ball in baseball, and since there was a recommendation for kids to not throw curve balls because of elbow injury, then the same recommendation was made for tennis players hitting kick serves.

Despite the fact that the difference between hitting a flat serve and a kick serve has no correlation to the difference between throwing a fast ball and a curve ball.

There was subsequently a whole increased spinal hyperextension argument on the kick serve which was also debunked ad nauseam. But alas to much for the overwhelming majority of people to understand so. . . anyway.

Thank's for the link.

[uspta146749877]

An extra piece

Bruce is one of the Fathers of tennis biomechanics in my mind. The animation is well done. I wish we could all produce that kind of clarity in communication in our posts, but that takes time and $$$.

The most important and possibly least talked about aspects that Bruce mentions is the...

Hip over Hip and consequentially shoulder over shoulder movement

This is something I've made a point to highlight on this site for the 2 years I've been on it when ever I talk about the serve.

Sampras is one of the great models of this hip over hip/ shoulder over shoulder movement. I believe that it directly influenced his high spin to speed ratio and thus his great success in holding serve.

Interestingly, Anna says she'd like to hit more flat serves but she needs to be patient, implying that more kick serves would save her body.

I just about wore myself out trying to argue this to the establishment a couple years ago. People were hung up on the idea that a kick serve was like a curve ball in baseball, and since there was a recommendation for kids to not throw curve balls because of elbow injury, then the same recommendation was made for tennis players hitting kick serves.

Despite the fact that the difference between hitting a flat serve and a kick serve has no correlation to the difference between throwing a fast ball and a curve ball.

There was subsequently a whole increased spinal hyperextension argument on the kick serve which was also debunked ad nauseam. But alas to much for the overwhelming majority of people to understand so. . . anyway.


Thank's for the link.

Probably u know about
http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=ht...)ZQ24Q3AsLdscM

or
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/sp...ne&oref=slogin

and
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2..._GRAPHIC.html#

[EricMatuszewski]

Yep, that's the one I was referring to.

Nice to see the NYtimes doing some tennis technique stuff.

What did you think about all of that stuff?

[EricMatuszewski]

Also,

Speaking of the advantages/disadvantage tightrope of height in tennis players.

Did anyone watch the Querrey/Fed match.

I was very impressed with Querrey. For 6'6", that kid moved very well I thought.

Usually I don't like watching the big guys play. But I thought Sam actually made Fed's service games interesting.

Very refreshing to watch a big guy work that hard to try to break.

[uspta146749877]

My replay in the morning,please

Yep, that's the one I was referring to.

Nice to see the NYtimes doing some tennis technique stuff.

What did you think about all of that stuff?

I need couple of hours,please

[uspta146749877]

A forehand of Nadal

Yep, that's the one I was referring to.

Nice to see the NYtimes doing some tennis technique stuff.

What did you think about all of that stuff?

see as well
see

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/20...LLS_ILLUS.html

[uspta146749877]

running around on a return of serve

Yep, that's the one I was referring to.

Nice to see the NYtimes doing some tennis technique stuff.

What did you think about all of that stuff?

see as well some of my posts around

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?t=1061&page=11

[uspta146749877]

kick vs flat serves

Bruce is one of the Fathers of tennis biomechanics in my mind. The animation is well done. I wish we could all produce that kind of clarity in communication in our posts, but that takes time and $$$.

The most important and possibly least talked about aspects that Bruce mentions is the...

Hip over Hip and consequentially shoulder over shoulder movement

This is something I've made a point to highlight on this site for the 2 years I've been on it when ever I talk about the serve.

Sampras is one of the great models of this hip over hip/ shoulder over shoulder movement. I believe that it directly influenced his high spin to speed ratio and thus his great success in holding serve.

Interestingly, Anna says she'd like to hit more flat serves but she needs to be patient, implying that more kick serves would save her body.

I just about wore myself out trying to argue this to the establishment a couple years ago. People were hung up on the idea that a kick serve was like a curve ball in baseball, and since there was a recommendation for kids to not throw curve balls because of elbow injury, then the same recommendation was made for tennis players hitting kick serves.

Despite the fact that the difference between hitting a flat serve and a kick serve has no correlation to the difference between throwing a fast ball and a curve ball.

There was subsequently a whole increased spinal hyperextension argument on the kick serve which was also debunked ad nauseam. But alas to much for the overwhelming majority of people to understand so. . . anyway.

Thank's for the link.

Which tendons/tissues do work differently for a kick serve vs flat serve?

[EricMatuszewski]

Study of video of elite players, suggests that the differences between serves hit with more topspin and those hit with more sidespin are only slight when hit by the same player.

Shoulder external rotation and Spinal hyperextension appear from qualitative analysis of video to be identical for elite level slice and kick serves for a given player under match conditions (the players not trying to do less or more on purpose).

I'd encourage everyone to look thru the stroke archives and see for your self the differences between each players 1st and 2nd serves.

Tendon/tissue loading differences would be too speculative to even discuss.

[mntlblok]

Also,

Speaking of the advantages/disadvantage tightrope of height in tennis players.

Did anyone watch the Querrey/Fed match.

I was very impressed with Querrey. For 6'6", that kid moved very well I thought.

Usually I don't like watching the big guys play. But I thought Sam actually made Fed's service games interesting.

Very refreshing to watch a big guy work that hard to try to break.

I know this is terribly off-topic, but it's just incredible. Looks like a different species. . . Might tennis be heading this way, too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEbuZrDdJ8U&feature=related

Kevin
Savannah

[EricMatuszewski]

Not off topic at all

Is it true Bolt is 6'5"?

That was fast!

I'm assuming this guy would make a hell of a tennis player.

However, it seems that as players get taller there is an issue with changing direction (which may be more important than sprint speed over 100m) especially since most of the movement in tennis consists of 3 steps and then stopping and simultaneously pushing off to go the other way.

Also there is the problem with handling low slices.

Never the less I think Bolt would be awesome.

The whole genetic component of sports success is a fascinating subject.

Good contribution!