Ok, I guess I'm just not seeing it the same. No big deal.
Just looks like in the Fed vid you added, I can see the face breaking across at CP with the acceleration of the WW. With the Tilden vid, I get 3-4 frames of extension after CP with no change in face before the wrist rolls over at what looks to me to be full extension. That FH looks to me to be just a FH drive with little topspin. Given the extension and the way we saw the face open at impact, makes me wonder if there was much if any TS on that shot, what most of us would call a flat shot.
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I think one of the things about the WW FH that seperates Tilden and Pancho from the modern WW FH is the angle on the racquet face just after contact. Jeff Counts may be the expert on this, but he always points out the racquet face on the modern WW FH stays facing the target throughout the WW(rainbow) motion. He has posted several videos and written more than on piece on this. Tilden and Pancho both turn their racquet over. Their strings are facing the ground after contact as the racquet goes to the finish side of their body. Also, clearly to me, Tilden and Gonzales lack the powerful uppercut(generated through the legs and torso) of the modern FH.Leave a comment:
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Take a look at the king of the wiper here:
https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/roger-federer/
Remember that topspin is not a function of how low the racket starts--in most cases it's barely below the ball. It's more the angle of the upward diagonal in the swing.
We haven't quantified how the wiper creates this or increases it, but from my own experience as well as the study of the pro video and the reports of many high level players, it does.
In fact the rise of the racket face and the turn look about the same to me in all 3. There's a reason they all did it on these given balls.
The Tilden video has the racket to my eye square at contact--but the slight mishit opens the face or pushes it back slightly thereafter.Leave a comment:
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I sure did. The frame at CP had the face slightly open, as it was the frame just after cp. To me the swing continued to extend past cp, then roll over near the end of extension.
I thought the WW FH, the right to left action was happening at CP and the whole swing path was at least a little steeper than the vid?Leave a comment:
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jgmissiontennis
I like to teach a windshield wiper topspin forehand by having the student stand close to the fence. Then have the student pin a ball against the fence so that the racquet face and ball are below their knee. With the racquet face parallel to the fence I have the student quickly lift their racquet straight up putting topspin on the ball. This shows the student the abrupt racquet (fence lift) lifting motion of the windshield wiper topspin forehand. I do not see that quick lift in either of the film clips.Leave a comment:
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Maybe I need to learn more about the WW FH, but the Tilden vid shows a pretty flat swing, with the racket face actually opening slightly on and immediately after impact, before rolling over near extension. Can't see how that is a ww and not even sure it would have much TS with a swing plane that flat, but I'm open minded.
Help me out here, as I probably don't know this shot like I should and this vid proves that to me.Leave a comment:
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QuickTime Versions
Bill Tilden Wiper Forehand
Pancho Gonzales Wiper Forehand
Last edited by John Yandell; 07-01-2016, 09:43 AM.Leave a comment:
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Interactive Forum: July 2008 History of the Windshield Wiper Forehand
Tennisplayer brings us yet more really cool footage that begs the question what is "Modern" technique.
I'm at the USTA Billie Jean King National Tennis Center today watching one of my students who just won his last nights match 6-0, 6-0 so I don't have much time to comment on all this coolness (at least not in an interesting way) right now. But, I will when I get back, till then, go for it and fill up this thread!
Bill Tilden Wiper Forehand
Pancho Gonzales Wiper Forehand
Last edited by John Yandell; 07-01-2016, 09:42 AM.
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