Dog Pat Part 2

[uspta990770809]

this was where we started

don, isn't the key to why her backswing is sooo wrapped back,
that her entire swing is done with her arm behind the plane of her shoulders?
sort of dragging everything around..

This video was the "before" picture. I had not given Amber any lessons when we took these shots. Something I do whenever I start with someone. (Click on the 8/18 views right next to this on the youtube site for the current stroke.) And I think you are right, the arm is so far behind her shoulders all she is doing is pulling. It seems my getting her to modify her backswing has gotten her into pushing a little bit and created the closed-face problems. I'm following all the thoughts in these posts and I think one of the reasons we are still having problems is although I got her to correct the length of the backswing a little bit, the racket is pointed off to the right (deuce corner) at the end of the backswing and she should really have the racket head more inside with the butt of the racket pointed at the ball a little earlier. I think this is related to the difficulty in getting the face back to vertical. I'm wondering if I should have used some other approach to get her to shorten that backswing, but I felt I needed to shorten that backswing and get her arm back into the plane of her shoulders as you say.

What do you think?

don

[airforce1]

I finally got the video up of her "before" we started on Feb 1, 2009. No "dog pat", but she was swinging way around. The "dog pat" seems to have been a compensation for cutting that backswing down. I think it points to the fact that I need to get her back to getting the racket a little more inside before she swings forward. That is: she has the shaft of the racket pointed slightly to the rear deuce corner instead of straight back or slightly to the ad corner side as she drops the racket head down. Could this be a key to the problem?

don

the link is

http://www.youtube.com/user/GlobalTe.../0/VERu5UJmMU0

don, isn't the key to why her backswing is sooo wrapped back,
that her entire swing is done with her arm behind the plane of her shoulders?
sort of dragging everything around..

[tcuk]

Don,

I received the clips via email, thanks.

I see you have uploaded some clips in 'real time' too. It's nice to see these as well as the slow motion clips. The real life pace and racket speed is handy to see.

[uspta990770809]

Amber's starting forehand, Feb 1

I finally got the video up of her "before" we started on Feb 1, 2009. No "dog pat", but she was swinging way around. The "dog pat" seems to have been a compensation for cutting that backswing down. I think it points to the fact that I need to get her back to getting the racket a little more inside before she swings forward. That is: she has the shaft of the racket pointed slightly to the rear deuce corner instead of straight back or slightly to the ad corner side as she drops the racket head down. Could this be a key to the problem?

don

the link is

http://www.youtube.com/user/GlobalTennisDC#play/all/uploads-all/0/VERu5UJmMU0

[uspta990770809]

The context of those strokes

Julian,
We've been focused on the full swing through the ball and getting the face squared up a little sooner, but I actually like the stance she is using here. Not particularly pleased with the way the weight stayed back, but I like a stance a little open like that. I'll try to get the full clips up on youtube so you can see the full stroke in context.

What do you see?
don

I haven't been able to upload the full slomo clips (over 100MB), but I was able to get the 10 and 18MB regular speed full clips up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocH6xXf_3mQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZptrgbjNQw

Learned about youtube and Facebook today. Interesting. I have to figure out why it wouldn't load the larger files. Perhaps I need to go to Quicktime first, and then to youtube for the 210FPS footage. Tried with the raw AVI's and it worked for the smaller 30 FPS clips, but not for the bigger slomo files. Is it the size or the 210 FPS. Anyone know?

hope you enjoy the context of the stroke here.
don

[uspta990770809]

The stance

Don,
a question about the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8zFg-Dr3wM

do you plan to work on stance a bit in future?

Julian,
We've been focused on the full swing through the ball and getting the face squared up a little sooner, but I actually like the stance she is using here. Not particularly pleased with the way the weight stayed back, but I like a stance a little open like that. I'll try to get the full clips up on youtube so you can see the full stroke in context.

What do you see?
don

[uspta146749877]

Frame by frame

This does a great job of showing the increased extension and it is really easy. But I like to have the ability to go through frame by frame and especially side by side in Quicktime or in a piece of software I have for Windows called V1Home ($40 to do side by side synchronised playback, but only in Windows). I like the fact we can download TP's clips and put them into our own side by side analysis and comparison.

If someone knows how I can go frame by frame in youtube (besides trying to stop and start the player), please post it.

But it is a great resoursce for putting stuff up. And I have a lot of video of my students. Some great before and afters.
don

I am hoping that if John would help deposit videos
on www.tennisplayer.net
we will be able to open Quicktime on a video and go frame by frame

julian mielniczuk
usptapro 27873

https://www.julianmielniczuk.usptapro.com

juliantennis@comcast.net

[uspta146749877]

Stance

This does a great job of showing the increased extension and it is really easy. But I like to have the ability to go through frame by frame and especially side by side in Quicktime or in a piece of software I have for Windows called V1Home ($40 to do side by side synchronised playback, but only in Windows). I like the fact we can download TP's clips and put them into our own side by side analysis and comparison.

If someone knows how I can go frame by frame in youtube (besides trying to stop and start the player), please post it.

But it is a great resoursce for putting stuff up. And I have a lot of video of my students. Some great before and afters.
don

Don,
a question about the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8zFg-Dr3wM

do you plan to work on stance a bit in future?

[tcuk]

Amber

Don,

Thanks for the clips and letting me know where you are with Amber to date. I can see significant improvement.

Amber's dog pat was more extreme than G's and you had further to go to achieve correction. She was almost shoving the ball. They now seem in a similar position, but Amber is perhaps in her hitting position sooner. I need to download your clips from youtube somehow and make a side-by-side comparision.

They both still have that awkward transition from backward to forward swing.

When G comes back I'm going to compile all the workable ideas I've received from other coaches on Tennisplayer and set about trying to resolve the problem. Extreme dog pats are very limiting to players in given situations and need changing.

I'll be in touch and will post clips...any breakthroughs and you'll be the first to know.

[uspta990770809]

Notes on the youtube clips

This does a great job of showing the increased extension and it is really easy. But I like to have the ability to go through frame by frame and especially side by side in Quicktime or in a piece of software I have for Windows called V1Home ($40 to do side by side synchronised playback, but only in Windows). I like the fact we can download TP's clips and put them into our own side by side analysis and comparison.

If someone knows how I can go frame by frame in youtube (besides trying to stop and start the player), please post it.

But it is a great resoursce for putting stuff up. And I have a lot of video of my students. Some great before and afters.
don

[uspta990770809]

Amber on youtube

Okay. I think I got it up.
Here are 2 of the clips John used in the "Your Strokes" article last month cut to the part he included and 2 more clips of the same views taken this last Tuesday.

On youtube, the tags are:

AP FhRear 4 28 09cut
AP FhDS HS 5 12 09cut
AP Fh Rear HS 8 18 09cut
AP FhDS HS 8 18 09cut

the straight links are

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVOiCGEWc3Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pXOdkHTq0E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3V5htOCxDA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8zFg-Dr3wM

Hope that works. Not that bad at all... if I did it right!
don

[uspta146749877]

using youtube is a better bet

I love the drill with the cup. And I'm so glad to hear someone actually tried and appreciates "Angela's Asteroids". Now let's see if I can attach these files. They are so big in the 210FPS mode.

I'll first try to attach the updates of the two views John used in the article, and then the actual original files he used. You can look at them side by side in QuickTime.

There doesn't appear to be a lot of difference when you look at the video, but the stroke is definitely changeing. So that tells me a very small difference in what we see in the high speed video can make a big change in the effectiveness of the stroke. It's a long way from where I want it, but extension through the ball is much better and she is starting to get below the ball a little better. The dog pat is only marginally reduced if at all, but she thinks she has changed it a lot. I do think the face is squareing up a little sooner. CK would be pleased to see the contact is more in front and the arm somewhat more extended. I just want to see the elimination of the shortening and bending as she starts to swing forward.

So let's see if I can load it. I got the clips all just under 5MB, but that is still a lot.

They should load by the MaxFilesize limits, but I can't get anything in. Sorry, it will have to wait until John gets free from Cincy.
don
PS I'll try to learn how to upload the files to youtube. I don't think it's that hard, but I've never done it.

using youtube is a better bet

[tcuk]

I got your PM, Airforce. Thanks for that and I'll PM you soon.

Don, I had to learn to use youtube to post clips. It's very easy. Just sign up for an account and upload.

[airforce1]

tcuk, did you get my pm?

[10splayer]

10splayer, Now that is a very interesting and you've explained it well. I've re-watched the video clips and see exactly what you mean. God, I'm blind sometimes! Amazing how I can watch something a 100 times yet not work it out.

I'll put your theories to the test as soon as G returns.

Well, thanks, but I wouldn't get too excited just yet. I may be wrong about this. And it wouldn't be the first time. Just my opinion.

Taught awhile now. And one characteristic I've found in all the great pro's i've had the priviledge to work with, is a desire and work ethic to do the very best for there clients. You have this!

I know G will be fine.