Lansdorp in action

[sejsel]

A standard way of reasoning AGAINST Brenda Schultz is as follows:
1.A follow through is DEFINED as a part of movement AFTER a
contact

2.A ball is gone after a contact-bye bye ball

ergo we cannot guide a ball after a contact
UNLESS we rephrase her statement a bit


julian

You are regarding and separating the phases of the stroke in very simplistic, and not entirely correct manner.

One might notice that I never said that followthrough itself guides the ball after the impact literally. Neither Shultz said it explicitly, but she clearly implied it.
I did however say that It has something to do with the guiding, to be more precise, with the intention behind the shot and some of its characteristics.

I can counter some of Your argument with this: Even though I'm not myself a big fan of teaching follow-through, do You seriously think that Brenda, Lansdorp, and many others, including those who share my preferences, do at times insist on this particular issue without reason?

The causal (co)relation in stroke production (swing- point of contact- followthrough) is not, in many people's experience, merely one-directional - contrary to much of what is basis for your line of argument.

PS On a bit more serious note:
if you say that initial conditions ARE defined at THE MOMENT of a contact THEN
equations of motions plus initial conditions AT A CONTACT describe uniquely what will happen to a ball AFTER a contact
The situation is a bit more complex because a contact time is NOT
exactly ZERO miliiseconds

Moment of contact itself, as well as the whole stroke, is defined by the intention with the stroke by the player.
Again, separating the parts of the stroke in the manner You present is not the whole truth.

To say that the followtrough doesn't say anything about what happened to the ball before and after doesn't make much sense.

Btw., nice title of the post.... ( I believe there was some triple bagel somewhere there...)
I never believed that a great player necessarily makes a great coach, nor vice versa, but what the ... Some things look nice, even in print.

And I do believe we were serious to begin with...

[sejsel]

Is Vic Braden article one of the links quoted below

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&client=hp&q=%22Vic+Braden%22%2B%22forehand%22%2B%223D%22%2B%22tennis+magazine%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=e6a647c08c5cebc9

I think an answer is : NO

Well, obviously not, since that link is a "hit" from the google search engine.

This article (from VB) still exists in written form, I might dig it out from the storage and scan it, and post it somewhere, would that be sufficient?

What is the point of this (quoted) post, and somewhat agitated tone in it, and writing in capital letters?

I do prefer to discuss in more relaxed manner and with some courtesy shown towards each other, if You don't mind.

[sejsel]

As You probably guessed BG meant to refer to Brian Gordon

Yeah, and I believe there's a rather sad story about loss of some of his tapes ( and more than that) I've read recently on tennisplayer.net.

[carrerakent]

Landsdorpal sure was effective at screwing up the kids natural follow through. i am glad that federer and nadal don't listen to landorpal or they would fall out of the top 100.

this guy is an arrogant ass, cursing in front of a little kid just to try to impress the guy with the video camera. i wouldn't pay him 10 cents for an hour lesson.

[holyhobo]

and what about you you ask your kids to be far from the ball just like Fed or Nadal RIGHT?

[sejsel]

Landsdorpal sure was effective at screwing up the kids natural follow through. i am glad that federer and nadal don't listen to landorpal or they would fall out of the top 100.

this guy is an arrogant ass, cursing in front of a little kid just to try to impress the guy with the video camera. i wouldn't pay him 10 cents for an hour lesson.

Yeah, pretty much all tennis coaches are just useless, especially those who happened to be responsible for mechanics of some of the best players we've seen.

I mean, Sampras, Austin, Davenport, Myschkina, Sharapova were just some of the worst players pro circuit has seen.
Really.
(For crying out loud)....

[John Yandell]

Carerra,

Some one pointed me to your site on which you claim to have Brian Gordon as a member of your staff. But Brian says there is no association. Could you clarify that please?

John Yandell

[carrerakent]

nope, I didn't list him as a staff member. don't mention his name at all. brian and i emailed each other back and forth about arranging getting together and with anticipation of that i put a short blurb about 3d analysis capability. since brian isn't the only guy with 3d analysis, whomever told you that was reaching.

[carrerakent]

and what about you you ask your kids to be far from the ball just like Fed or Nadal RIGHT?

in a nut shell yes...but i would never make a kid slow down his racket head speed in order to obtain an old school motion...the same one he taught pete sampras that pete abandoned or he would have never won a grand slam. but, i'm guessing landsorp isn't aware of how he slowed down the racket head speed. he calls it in the video, "your slapping at the ball" proves he doesn't know much about athleticism, physics and the modern pro game.

[John Yandell]

http://www.maximizeuonline.com/Staff.html

Here is your staff listing with Brian's name.

MaximizeU has put together an elite team of professionals

• Kent Wood, Coach
• Artem Sitak, Touring professional, Spokesperson, and Analysis Model

EvoSport

• Jay Schroeder
• Dr. Denis Thompson, Exercise Physiologist
• Charles Maka, Elite Athlete Trainer

3-D Tennis Technologies

• Dr. Brian Gordon

[carrerakent]

well, that was the initial design when i was talking to Brian and my webmaster was supposed to delete it. thank you for bringing that to my attention. at this time brian and i have not solidified any working relationship.

[John Yandell]

A simple oversight I am sure. Strange though that Brian did not recall any conversation along the lines you suggest. Might want to consider a new webmaster.

[sejsel]

in a nut shell yes...but i would never make a kid slow down his racket head speed in order to obtain an old school motion...the same one he taught pete sampras that pete abandoned or he would have never won a grand slam. but, i'm guessing landsorp isn't aware of how he slowed down the racket head speed. he calls it in the video, "your slapping at the ball" proves he doesn't know much about athleticism, physics and the modern pro game.

This comment reveals (not having in mind Lansdorp primarily, but tennis and understanding of stroke mechanics) a whole lot.

Slowing down "racquet head speed" isn't really intended to be the end result of what was done in that video, or in work with Sampras. Remember, these are kids in the certain stage of their development.

How on earth can someone develop a world class stroke without getting a feel of hitting through the ball first, and proper use of all parts of the biomech. chain? That has to be established first, and the issue of not mixing up, or confusing "slapping the ball" with "whipping the ball" at the end of the properly done forehand really does elude some people...
There are videos of Sampras forehand age 10 or so, here at tennisplayer.net, and one can compare them with the footage of one forehand he bludgeons past Federer from the MSG exhibition match (match nr. 4).
The similarities are more than obvious.

The goal of what Lansdorp, or any other good coach is doing by telling "do not slap; drive the ball", is, among other things, to promote the proper role of the lower arm in the production of the forehand.

It is not easy, (nor did Sampras ever did that) to "abandon" stroke mechanics that have become ingrained in one's muscle memory; Sampras did credit Lansdorp himself for his stroke mechanics on the forehand side.

He (Sampras) also stated in one issue of Tennis Magazine from '95 or '96, (instructions) that he cannot really explaing how he hits his forehand; he does it the way he has been taught.

How the "racquet head speed" is generated, how does it relate to the "racquet speed" and how it is really quantified should be left to more serious and more scientifically based way of seeing things.

It is also really sad to see this sort of demeaning attitude, and opinions not short of personal attacks, being pulled any time certain name is mentioned in one's posts.

I have myself never met the man (Lansdorp), I have just seen on the web what he demands on court and what he has done thus far working with juniors.
I do not intend to play the role of anyone's advocate here, but I do firmly feel that the (eventual) criticism of anyone's work has to be conducted in far less personal and far more detached, knowledge-based manner.

The question of how to impart a rotation on the ball and in what manner, and when it has to be taught far less naïve than it seems.

I've heard a nice story on this subject, where Bruce Elliot was involved recently at one ITF tennis conference in Europe, details were really interesting.