Rather frustrating...

[gzhpcu]

That's what I was afraid of... Also wonder if it isn't because I work out with heavy weights...

yet at impact my arm is straight...



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[tennis_chiro]

A couple of illustrations of the swing to the "line"

Is this what you mean?... I took my photo a couple of frames later too...


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Okay, Phil,
First let's see if I can get these things to load

[jpg]PhilVsPete_1_29_11.jpg[/jpg]

This is a drawing (tracing) I made of your still above and a blow up of Sampras. You can clearly see the difference in the angle of attack of the racket. You eventually get close to this line, but not until you have squandered a lot of your potential power.

Here is the illustration from Cross and Lindsey's Technical Tennis, Match Point Box 4.4, page146-7.

[jpg]TechTns_4.4_1_29_11.jpg[/jpg]

If it doesn't show, I think you can at least check out the attachments. oh well, my formatting is not right, but the attachments are there. My notation of a right to left move of the racket head is from the front view (right of the observer). Normally, we talk about this as a left to right move.

don

[llll]

OK, here is the toss...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhjtd80q-TE

I assume this is the relevant frame...

look where your hand is in relation to your head
look where your hand is in the photo of your serve
look how externally rotated you upper arm is in the pic above
almost like sampras would look if we asked him to do the same thing!!!
you can get lower in your drop
try some of the drills i mentioned and of course do dons drills
interesting note for don
i went to bollietieris and had a few lessons with "the serve doctor" pat dougherty(sp)
one of the things he made me do was serve with my right leg in front!!! reverse platform!!
purpose was the same to get me to learn to rotate my hips as well as the trunk
phil i suffer from the same problems as you(maybe different reasons technically) but im trying to pass on what has helped me. i still dont have a "pro drop" but its much better than from where it started

[gzhpcu]

Thanks to everybody... have something to work on.... will try out the various suggestions/drills.... I wish my ROM were only RAM...

[gzhpcu]

Don,
Not sure why you are using this format:

[jpg]PhilVsPete_1_29_11.jpg[/jpg]

The scripting language for an image format has the keywords IMG instead of jpg, and the contents in between the IMG and /IMG must be a URL address pointing to, for example, a jpg or png image which has been uploaded onto a server. Example: http://img214.imageshack.us/i/philservejan2010.png

[llll]

That's what I was afraid of... Also wonder if it isn't because I work out with heavy weights...

yet at impact my arm is straight...



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

your arm is staight and the racquet and contact is between your hand and your head (not in astraight line)
thats a good position
yes for the pros the contact is more to the left

they get more up and across

[llll]

There seems to be a definite physical restriction in your throwing clip, a lack of flexibility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhjtd80q-TE

Try to throw more upwards so the arm is locked out fully vertical when you release the ball. The arm almost oscillates out to the side in the clip and the arm is nowhere near fully vertical. Definitely a flexibility restriction issue if you ask me. Get stretching, Phil

i dont know if the still picture is the first or second throw
id really like to see the second throw because it was more upward like a serve.
we would see more shoulder tilt and cartwheeling
all contributing to racquet drop

despite the limitations of flexibility
(wouldnt we all like to be 25 again)
the extent of external rotation shown in the throwing motion compared to the serve tells me there is room for improvement
icbw
curious what phil and others think about that

[tennis_chiro]

Don,
Not sure why you are using this format:

[jpg]PhilVsPete_1_29_11.jpg[/jpg]

The scripting language for an image format has the keywords IMG instead of jpg, and the contents in between the IMG and /IMG must be a URL address pointing to, for example, a jpg or png image which has been uploaded onto a server. Example: http://img214.imageshack.us/i/philservejan2010.png

Phil,
Pretty sure I got a couple of images/attachments to show before (although they were awfully big). I've never used a server. Now you've forced me to figure out how it's done tonite.
don

[gzhpcu]

Don,
Look, it is really easy:

1) Use ImageShack, for example:

http://imageshack.us/

2) You get this:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Here, with the "Browse" button, you can look at the image files on your computer. Select one, then click on "Upload".
The next page then gives you code to copy and paste here.

It is that easy...

[gzhpcu]

i dont know if the still picture is the first or second throw
id really like to see the second throw because it was more upward like a serve.
we would see more shoulder tilt and cartwheeling
all contributing to racquet drop

despite the limitations of flexibility
(wouldnt we all like to be 25 again)
the extent of external rotation shown in the throwing motion compared to the serve tells me there is room for improvement
icbw
curious what phil and others think about that

It was a still from the upward throw. Yes, it does seem to me that I there is room for improvement... Now, just to figure out how to get there... I'll try the various excercise... Maybe I'll also try to replicate the "feel" I had when tossing too...

[gzhpcu]

your arm is staight and the racquet and contact is between your hand and your head (not in astraight line)
thats a good position
yes for the pros the contact is more to the left

they get more up and across

That was a first serve, here is a second serve, which is more to the left...

First serve..............................Second serve...


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[tennis_chiro]

Try that once more



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This is a drawing (tracing) I made of your still above and a blow up of Sampras. You can clearly see the difference in the angle of attack of the racket. You eventually get close to this line, but not until you have squandered a lot of your potential power.

Here is the illustration from Cross and Lindsey's Technical Tennis, Match Point Box 4.4, page146-7.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

My notation of a right to left move of the racket head is from the front view (right of the observer). Normally, we talk about this as a left to right move.

Oh well, it's still too big,but I think you can see it now.

don

[gzhpcu]

Found this FYB video showing how the racket moves seen from the top of the player...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgZZhATk8AY&feature=fvw

[llll]

That was a first serve, here is a second serve, which is more to the left...

First serve..............................Second serve...


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phil i dont meqan to digress
but what i meant by more to the left was if you drew alone straight don from the ball at contact it goes to the right of your body.
the first video of federer 2009 tour strokes i looked at to illustrate what i am about to say next is in the arm section first serve rear #5

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_serve/rf_arm_action/rf_arm_action.html?RF1stSDeuceArmActionRear5.mo

you will see if you drew aline from the ball at contact straight down the line hits his shoulder neck area and the angle of the racquet to the line of his arm is more angled to the left. remeber this was a first serve
this position of contact where a line goes to the shoulder neck area on first serves is a common position in my viewings
its alittle more to the left than that for kick serves.
maybe thats why pros have so much spin on their "flat "serves

[llll]

your second serve picture is closer to rogers first serve
maybe if roger moved his first serve contact point to where yous is he could get a few more mph to his serve