Serve and Volley: Tactical Components

[klacr]

When are we going to see someone with a uni grip, at net, full western, using the same side of the frame, to hit swinging volleys off a continental gripped serve?

Geoff,

That day may not be far away. Perhaps the uni grip is extreme, but the first volley being replaced with the swinging volley, that's where we could be headed. Good thinking Geoff.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[gzhpcu]

When are we going to see someone with a uni grip, at net, full western, using the same side of the frame, to hit swinging volleys off a continental gripped serve?

This is the only guy I ever saw doing it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IdvdxqSg8E

He would hit his backhand with the same grip and same face of the racket...

[lobndropshot]

When are we going to see someone with a uni grip, at net, full western, using the same side of the frame, to hit swinging volleys off a continental gripped serve?

How do you make that work?

[GeoffWilliams]

When are we going to see someone with a uni grip, at net, full western, using the same side of the frame, to hit swinging volleys off a continental gripped serve?

[gzhpcu]

Kyle, the probem is we live in an era of fast gratification. No patience. If only the Aussies would decide to go back to serve and volley with their emerging players... In the days of Gonzales and company, there wasn't that much money going around, not so much hype about ATP rankings...

[klacr]

Good morning students of the game. It's a bright and sunny morning over this side of the pond. I am writing from my clubhouse overlooking dozens of children taking part in the holiday camps I oversee. Lots of laughing and fun games...I can hear it all coming through my window...wonderful. None of the kids can play for toffee, but they don't care. When it comes to having fun they beat the performance players hands down...no contest.




On many occasions tennis_chiro has reminded us of the intricacies of serve and volley and volleying in general. It's great to have him around because as McEnroe said: "People forget". The nuances and finer details are going extinct. If it goes on much longer, the art won't be coachable because the knowledge will be gone.



Putting yourself on the line. Great observation. Go for it. Who cares if we get it wrong...probably only ourselves when it comes down to it. The best thing about a forum is the freedom it gives you to talk to the wind. Well done, Klacr. Don't play safe...go for it.




Elegant is not the word...Rosewall is ineffable. How great to see him in his prime, moving and hitting a tennis ball like that.

Great post Stotty. Thanks for kind words and thanks for reading. I'm definitely going for it. No worries about that. Still a few more articles left in the series and excited to share them.

Glad to see your camps are going well. Nothing better than courts full of children having fun, hopefully falling in love with the sport. A sport they can play for a lifetime.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[klacr]

I think we have covered this issue elsewhere: it is easier, and brings faster success to teach youngsters the baseline game. Serve and volley, is more difficult, needs more athleticism. Kids are to small to cover the net. Later, nobody wants to invest the time to practice it, because initially you will lose matches, if you are the only one doing it.

Look at the success Pat Rafter had doing it. But he was a dying breed and no successor showed up. Nowadays, it is just about power bashing off both wings. Shame there isn't more variety nowadays, but, then again, who is willing to invest the time to get there and lose out at early successes?

Phil, valid points.But my issue is how is a player going to distance himself from the herd? Everyone is playing the same game and therefore, all competitive and compatible. If someone wants to lead they may have to find a different way (or older way) of doing things. Something radical. You can't soar with the eagles if you're surrounded by Turkeys. A new game should form. Waiting for someone to break free.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Zo4AVL7AE

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[gzhpcu]

I think we have covered this issue elsewhere: it is easier, and brings faster success to teach youngsters the baseline game. Serve and volley, is more difficult, needs more athleticism. Kids are to small to cover the net. Later, nobody wants to invest the time to practice it, because initially you will lose matches, if you are the only one doing it.

Look at the success Pat Rafter had doing it. But he was a dying breed and no successor showed up. Nowadays, it is just about power bashing off both wings. Shame there isn't more variety nowadays, but, then again, who is willing to invest the time to get there and lose out at early successes?

[stotty]

Morning students...

Good morning students of the game. It's a bright and sunny morning over this side of the pond. I am writing from my clubhouse overlooking dozens of children taking part in the holiday camps I oversee. Lots of laughing and fun games...I can hear it all coming through my window...wonderful. None of the kids can play for toffee, but they don't care. When it comes to having fun they beat the performance players hands down...no contest.

tennis_chiro often writes about this form of tennis and what it would take in terms of time and commitment to implement it at the professional level. Reading your articles supports his thesis...the subject is deep. Such an intricate blend of technique and tactics.

On many occasions tennis_chiro has reminded us of the intricacies of serve and volley and volleying in general. It's great to have him around because as McEnroe said: "People forget". The nuances and finer details are going extinct. If it goes on much longer, the art won't be coachable because the knowledge will be gone.

I just can't get over how complicated a subject this is and I really admire you for putting yourself out on the line to tackle it.

Putting yourself on the line. Great observation. Go for it. Who cares if we get it wrong...probably only ourselves when it comes down to it. The best thing about a forum is the freedom it gives you to talk to the wind. Well done, Klacr. Don't play safe...go for it.

Here is a Ken Rosewall video, with volleying at the end...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aUnSCp64S0

Talk about an elegant player...

Elegant is not the word...Rosewall is ineffable. How great to see him in his prime, moving and hitting a tennis ball like that.

[klacr]

A brave attempt to write about a dead art form. The metaphysical nature of it is impossible enough...let alone the fact that it no longer exists in the professional game of tennis.

tennis_chiro often writes about this form of tennis and what it would take in terms of time and commitment to implement it at the professional level. Reading your articles supports his thesis...the subject is deep. Such an intricate blend of technique and tactics.

To write about something so complex as "serve and volley tactics and technique" is indeed a brave endeavor. It brings back memories. There are so many tiny facets that go into making such play a success. It used to be such a huge part of the big picture of tennis. It used to be a prerequisite for any decent tennis player to be able to play solid serve and volley tennis on fast hard courts or grass courts. Many used it as tactics on the clay at Roland Garros...and won with it.

Many talk of the modern tennis game being a product of evolution. Well...I think you know how I feel about that miscalculation. I just can't get over how complicated a subject this is and I really admire you for putting yourself out on the line to tackle it. It's unbelievable. It's thought provoking. I don't know where to start. I guess I'll just keep reading. Thanks for your efforts...most interesting. Hovercraft...I like it.

worldsbesttenniscoach sort of misunderstood the supporting video material. He is flawed like so many of us...plus he isn't bashful...like the rest of us. If he accidentally puts his foot in his mouth...it's forgivable. What's the harm? His remarks certainly didn't influence my feelings one iota. Aren't we confident enough to stand tall and ignore something if it misses the mark?

I do agree though that the best way to approach posting on this wonderful forum is to support your remarks. Just state the case as best you can...it makes for interesting reading. And debate.

don_budge,

I appreciate the post. Yes, serve and volley is an interesting dynamic nowadays. Perhaps gone, but is it gone forever? I don't believe so.There will be a few articles in the future that I'm really proud of that may help spur the serve and volley revolution. Stay tuned for that. Serve and volley in the pro game may be limited, but what about the club and recreational level? I think there is something in these articles that every level of player and coach can take with them and use. Best is yet to come. Tennis has a funny way of surprising and satisfying us. I'm not closing the book on serve and volley just yet, and I know I'm not alone in this thought.

Thanks for reading and following the series.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[gzhpcu]

Here is a Ken Rosewall video, with volleying at the end...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aUnSCp64S0

Talk about an elegant player...

[don_budge]

Dear Kyle...

Let's discuss Kyle's latest article, "Serve and Volley: Tactical Components"

A brave attempt to write about a dead art form. The metaphysical nature of it is impossible enough...let alone the fact that it no longer exists in the professional game of tennis.

tennis_chiro often writes about this form of tennis and what it would take in terms of time and commitment to implement it at the professional level. Reading your articles supports his thesis...the subject is deep. Such an intricate blend of technique and tactics.

To write about something so complex as "serve and volley tactics and technique" is indeed a brave endeavor. It brings back memories. There are so many tiny facets that go into making such play a success. It used to be such a huge part of the big picture of tennis. It used to be a prerequisite for any decent tennis player to be able to play solid serve and volley tennis on fast hard courts or grass courts. Many used it as tactics on the clay at Roland Garros...and won with it.

Many talk of the modern tennis game being a product of evolution. Well...I think you know how I feel about that miscalculation. I just can't get over how complicated a subject this is and I really admire you for putting yourself out on the line to tackle it. It's unbelievable. It's thought provoking. I don't know where to start. I guess I'll just keep reading. Thanks for your efforts...most interesting. Hovercraft...I like it.

worldsbesttenniscoach sort of misunderstood the supporting video material. He is flawed like so many of us...plus he isn't bashful...like the rest of us. If he accidentally puts his foot in his mouth...it's forgivable. What's the harm? His remarks certainly didn't influence my feelings one iota. Aren't we confident enough to stand tall and ignore something if it misses the mark?

I do agree though that the best way to approach posting on this wonderful forum is to support your remarks. Just state the case as best you can...it makes for interesting reading. And debate.

[gzhpcu]

I think the books I have are The Game of Singles in Tennis, by Talbert and Olds, and The Game of Doubles in Tennis, by Talbert and Olds. The books I have also have similar drawings and statistics.

Yes, those are the ones I have too. The diagram is from the first book...

[John Yandell]

Here is an excerpt from the Forum Guidelines:

"Trolls will be subject to ban."

"What's a troll? Someone who sows discord by posting inflammatory or inaccurate messages in an online community, with the intent of provoking readers. Someone who refuses who engage in discussion when his views are questioned and cannot offer evidence to support his or her views."

World's Best:

You are and have been trolling this site virtually from the beginning of your subscription. So knock it off. We have a great forum going here with honest give and take. Either get in line with this or I will cancel your subscription.

[klacr]

And something I notice about many of the volley videos in this article......Often, we see the server serve, then the camera does not really follow the volleyer to the net. Instead, we see a different cam taking video of the volley. It is as though someone on the other side of the net was feeding easy volleys to the server, so the server would not make any volleying mistakes on cam.

Many of the volleys shown in this article have such bad technique. The cams don't show where the volleys land in the court, but it is easy to see that in real life games, the volleyer will miss many of those easy volleys, due to straight-armed technique that is also too caressing in follow through.

I appreciate the pages from Talbert's old books -- reminds me of when i was just learning tennis. I think I have those old singles, and doubles books, by Talbert and partner.

WBTC,

I appreciate the critiques and respect all your posts and your opinions, different, controversial or otherwise.

I can tell you that I wrote the article but Mr. Yandell was nice enough to take the time out of his schedule to shoot video of Giancarlo and Scott showcasing the shots and what the article was about.

I love the videos and although I see what you mean by the editing, it's about ease of viewing for the reader and getting the proper shot on camera and I think most people understand the point that is being demonstrated. Shooting video like this is very tricky as I had the pleasure of finding out a few months ago when I shot video at my own club for a future article in this series (Stay tuned for that!) Getting the proper shots, timing and editing done is a real art and full time job in and of itself. After my experience with this type of filming, It deepens the respect I have for this site. But I digress...

As for your opinions on technique, Giancarlo and Scott are pretty good players according to their results and playing careers, whether or not their technique is proper according to your teaching systems, its all a moot point. The article was more tactical, not technical. Many players that may read this article may not be possessed with textbook volleys but can still learn something from the tactical side and try to implement it or at least grasp the idea. There are some great technical articles on this site dedicated to the crisp, clean, beautiful shots known as volleys (I share the same adoration and respect for this shot as you do) but the way this serve and volley series is laid out, the technical side of volleys will not be the sole focus. My apologies WBTC. Thanks for reading though

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton