Serve and Volley: Tactical Components

[gzhpcu]

Rafter and Edberg matches have always been my favorites...

[klacr]

Am sure that Rafter playing like he did here, would still do great...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds-2fSafzKY

No doubts on that Phil. The tennis world needs more Rafters and less Gilles Simon and Andreas seppi. No disrespect to those guys but they don't elicit the energy and excitement that a serve and volleyer does.

Rafter was great, but there was no one he made it look better than Edberg. He was just...wow... Impressive.

Here's an Edberg/Henman match from 1996 US Open. And yes, Edberg won.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HV6ANe4TAY

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[gzhpcu]

Am sure that Rafter playing like he did here, would still do great...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds-2fSafzKY

[klacr]

Kyle,
Don't you think if Rafter were playing now in his prime, he would be having success with his game, at least on grass? More so because nobody is used to it? Look at last year's Wimbledon when Roger Federer lost to a nobody who played consistent serve and volley.

Phil,
Awesome question and thanks for contributing to this thread.

I absolutely agree! It's a different look than what most guys are used to. Being rushed on the first shot after your return from a guy that took it out of the air as a volley certainly makes you feel the pressure. No doubt. And yes, great example with Stakhovsky beating Federer at Wimbledon. However, he didn't win a match for 2 or 3 months after that on tour. Serve and volley executed at a very high level is artistic, incredible, nearly unbeatable stuff. look at the highlight reels on youtube of Edberg and Rafter, really inspiring stuff.

Also, Geoff brings up a very good point and one that has been mentioned on a previous thread. Stakhovsky being called a nobody, 100th best player in the world, damn thats tough. But thats tennis.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[GeoffWilliams]

Nobody likes personal attacks. It's a thing that makes you want to go elsewhere. That's usually why it's done, to drive out someone you disagree with. TW forum is disgusting that they don't manage those.

Another Kyle gem: "Never give up something that makes you smile." I would add, "Never give up someone who makes you laugh!", ha, ha.

I guess you could call Stakhovsky a nobody. In no other sport is the top 100th guy in the world at it a nobody.

[John Yandell]

DB and All,

The message I am sending is that the purpose of this Forum is to have lively, honest and even pointed discussion and, sure, argument. But with respect and accountability for what you say.

Read the guidelines if you want to understand, and pay attention to the definition of trolling. I've done this I think 3 times in 10 years. And in each case the Forum was better for it.

[gzhpcu]

Kyle,
Don't you think if Rafter were playing now in his prime, he would be having success with his game, at least on grass? More so because nobody is used to it? Look at last year's Wimbledon when Roger Federer lost to a nobody who played consistent serve and volley.

[klacr]

Back to tennis

This thread is gaining some traction. Sadly, for all the wrong reasons..

Back on track, I think the days of Edberg and Rafter style serve and volley are in a long hibernation, I'm not willing to bury it just yet. But as we all know, the game has changed and continues to change. How many variations of baseline tennis can we possibly have? I agree with Phil's comments on this being a society of instant gratification and we want results fast. But I also think this society if creative and intelligent enough to discover new ways to improve what was once dominant. Can serve and volley come back at the professional level? I really do hope so. Can it still be effective at a club or recreational level, absolutely.

For pro tennis, perhaps serve and volley will look much different than how you or I remember it. Remember the baseline rallies between Borg and Vilas? Compare those to the baseline rallies of Djokovic and Nadal today. Same idea, but executed in a much more dynamic way. Times are changing. This is a perfect time for a player to grow up, develop and break that mold. Will it take longer to perfect, depends on the athletes willingness and the coaches ability to steer that ship. I'm an optimist. I may be a minority, but somethings I just gotta stay loyal to and believe in. Never give up on something that makes you smile.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[don_budge]

No response...

Whenever someone posts on this forum any reader has a couple of options...you can respond, you can avoid reading a certain poster, you can read then ignore what is written or you can take it personally and be offended.

Don,
Are you familiar with the tenniswarehouse forum? It allows practically total freedom, and I now avoid it. Insults, childish behaviour.

I find an administrator like John who keeps a tight rein on things much better.

One can disagree here, I find, but you have to back it up with sound arguments and examples.

For example...I choose not to respond to this post. For no particular reason.

[gzhpcu]

Don,
Are you familiar with the tenniswarehouse forum? It allows practically total freedom, and I now avoid it. Insults, childish behaviour.

I find an administrator like John who keeps a tight rein on things much better.

One can disagree here, I find, but you have to back it up with sound arguments and examples.

[don_budge]

A bit worrisome...to silence the discenting voices! Right or wrong...

WBC,

You have successfully engineered your own exit. Trolling is trolling. You know it and so does everyone else. I refunded you pro rata on your subscription. The integrity of this discussion is important and you are violating it. Please don't resubscribe.

John Yandell

I respectfully submit the following. What is integrity in tennis discussions...in a game with the most exact dimensions but with infinite area.

It looks as though www.tennisplayer.net thinks of itself as unassailable, & will ban any member who questions the "authorities" here. Wow. Very sad. Sadly funny, in a way.

I realize that Bill gets some coaches panties all in a bunch...but he has never once written anything that has offended me. For that matter he has never written anything that I "disagree" with. But that is because I feel that he is entitled...to his own opinion. Not all of us are as diplomatic as Stotty.

It never ceased to amaze me how thin-skinned tennis coaches and golf coaches can be. Each thinks he has some monopoly on the truth...a sign of insecurity inherent to the trade I suppose. But come on...your body of work stands on its own. How could you possibly let a single lone voice get your goat to the point where you have to silence it?

John...you are the owner here. You make the decisions. There is no question about that. But what kind of message does this send? He may have been wrong to question you in the sense that he was not correct in the way that he interpreted what you wrote...he may have miscalculated himself. He may have been incorrect on any number of issues but isn't that a good thing? Doesn't he give us further evidence to measure our thoughts and opinions upon? He doesn't accept everything here on tennisplayer.net as the gospel. That's a good thing. Neither do I by the way...although the reverse is more applicable...I do find tons of good relevant discussion and articles and the rest.

It only makes it more amusing and more interesting. 10splayer has said more offensive things to me than worldsbesttenniscoach has written here. He called me a whining bitch the other day. I was waiting for a reaction from the "authorities" but there was none and that was just fine with me. I can take care of myself. But I was just curious...how far can it go? What do I care? I find it amusing...even interesting. In fact it may even give me reason to pause...to think. Is it possible that everyone doesn't agree with everything that I write? Of course they don't and that isn't even my ambition.

I agree...and I hate using that word here on the forum but this is a different matter...that Bill does not back up his criticism as well as he might but I recognize this to be a personal trait of his. Perhaps a flaw in his human makeup. I do find his tennis acumen to be terribly interesting and just like everyone else that contributes to this forum I read everything that he writes.

In short...I feel that it is a mistake to ban any writer from this forum. That is...short of being a nabrug or whatever it's name was. But even he had some merit...as terribly disturbed as he seemed to be at times. He was only another mental case to weigh my insanity against. Whenever someone posts on this forum any reader has a couple of options...you can respond, you can avoid reading a certain poster, you can read then ignore what is written or you can take it personally and be offended.

The worrisome part about this is that it reflects our society in general these days. The thought police have taken over little by little. Any deviation in expression raises an eyebrow. It is a cause for concern for the "authorities". It is easy to silence the offending voice...it is another thing to silently contemplate and reserve judgement for the higher power...wherever he may be at the present moment. Certainly the planet Earth has become too much of a disappointment to merit any of his attention as of late. We have been left to our own devices. What are WE going to do? Kill the offenders?

[John Yandell]

WBC,

You have successfully engineered your own exit. Trolling is trolling. You know it and so does everyone else. I refunded you pro rata on your subscription. The integrity of this discussion is important and you are violating it. Please don't resubscribe.

John Yandell

[lobndropshot]

Sorry if I offended Coach Yandell. My point is that this site is supposedly a site for best practice, yet I see flaws in the volleyers' techniques. I am sorry if this offends Coach Yandell to the point he "bans" me. I am not sure what Coach Yandell means by "trolling."

I know I was critical of Coach Yandell's article on the pro backhands, in this issue. I was just making the scientific point that true researchers & scientists share data with others, if asked. I just asked about the source of Coach Yandell's observations & opinions. I am sorry that I did not treat Coach Yandell as though he is automatically right. I am sorry I believe in the important scientific principle of skepticism.

It looks as though www.tennisplayer.net thinks of itself as unassailable, & will ban any member who questions the "authorities" here. Wow. Very sad. Sadly funny, in a way.

Then write a post or article with that information in it. Please

[worldsbesttenniscoach]

That German player Kohlschreiber hits his forehand & backhand returns of serve on the same side of the racket. Also, the American Jack Sock often hits forehand & backhand using same side of strings. I think there are probably other players like this, as well.

Also, I want to point out that I make many relevant, insightful comments in the Forum, here at www.tennisplayer.net, but because Coach Yandell does not like my comments, he thinks about banning me. I guess this Forum is not ready to accept different thinking, even when the different thinking might be correct.

Coach Yandell did not even have the courtesy to warn me in a private message, first. But whether the warning was in public or private, his warning is inappropriate.

[worldsbesttenniscoach]

Sorry if I offended Coach Yandell. My point is that this site is supposedly a site for best practice, yet I see flaws in the volleyers' techniques. I am sorry if this offends Coach Yandell to the point he "bans" me. I am not sure what Coach Yandell means by "trolling."

I know I was critical of Coach Yandell's article on the pro backhands, in this issue. I was just making the scientific point that true researchers & scientists share data with others, if asked. I just asked about the source of Coach Yandell's observations & opinions. I am sorry that I did not treat Coach Yandell as though he is automatically right. I am sorry I believe in the important scientific principle of skepticism.

It looks as though www.tennisplayer.net thinks of itself as unassailable, & will ban any member who questions the "authorities" here. Wow. Very sad. Sadly funny, in a way.