Tour Strokes: Maria Sharapova Serve

[jimlosaltos]

I hope she didn't get over too many of them...

The toss or the operations. Sorry, couldn't resist.

[John Yandell]

I hope she didn't get over too many of them...

[jimlosaltos]

Shoulder?

Would love to get your thoughts on my article, "Tour Strokes: Maria Sharapova Serve"

Great stuff. Kind of you, John, not to name poor Cliff Drysdale <g>.

The part about her not getting up to the ball is rather strange; she hits the ball higher in the air than a lot of ATP pros.

A tangential note on Maria's second serve. During one of those miked coaching beaks a few years back {and I love that the WTA does that} not sure if it was Joyce or Hogstedt, told her to something like "get over the ball" and Maria replied "I can't feel anything anymore. I can't feel it." I took that to mean after her injury.

I don't think people give her enough credit for toughness -- few players short of Tommy Haas have come back from multiple shoulder injuries.

[stroke]

Your thoughts on this likeness at extension point is something I had been looking at also, but I was just missing something in putting it together. Your explanation of the 180 degree shoulder rotation that Sharapova is missing brought home the shoulder rotation aspect of the serve. As you know, Brian pointed out the straight arm forehand really taps into the shoulder as the engine for the straight arm type 3 forehand. Guys like Nadal, Federer, and Verdasco probably get more than a 180 degree shoulder rotation from the completion of the flip to the finish of the completion of the shoulder rotation on their forehands as they finish the stroke.

[John Yandell]

Yeah thanks. Something that actually only occurred to me when working on the two serve articles this month... another step forward in understanding the mysteries of tennis...

[stroke]

Good discussion.

You see the full rotation in most--but not all servers. Some who you'd expect to have bigger serves like Del Potro have more than Maria but less than Roger or Pete. Andy Murray also has less than full rotation but again has a more to the right ball placement. Still his serve could be even scarier I feel. Roddick is up there with the most extreme due to the effects of his windup to that outside power position.

The full turnover of the hand and racket is similar to the extension point on the forehand. In fact it is the extension point. The point at which the racket travels the furthest forward before relaxing and swinging back to the player's left.

Maria has good leg drive and kick back. All the top men do--landing left leg with the rear foot kicking back. Any swing around comes after the kick back and is about recovery.

John, I really like your thought here where you likened the full turnover of the hand at extension point on the serve and the forehand. It really is similar, particularly on the straight arm forehands of Nadal and Federer.

[don_budge]

Reaction?

I still question whether the omnipresent kickback is an adaptation for balance and not going forward to the net, as Geoff suggests in the last post, or is it really a mechanism that adds additional speed to the serve. There is some reasoning I can see in the idea that if the server creates additional momentum to the rear, that momentum can in some way be balanced by additional momentum that was transferred to the ball going forward. Or something like that. Biomechanists, help!

don

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. I am very curious too about the "omnipresent kickback"...something doesn't quite add up in my book.

[hockeyscout]

If so, remember: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink...

Are you talking about Sharapova or the IMG Tennis instructor?

[stroke]

Also, Pat teachings on the serve have evolved through the years. You may remember in the 90's(I think), Pat came out with Sonic Serve video in which he promoted sticking the hip out over the baseline, as he demonstrates now in a negative way when he is mimicking on this YouTube video what Sharapova and most of the women players are doing wrong. He now is teaching a groin stretch(or limbo stretch) over the baseline, which promotes the chest tilt to the sky position he is demonstrating. As 10splayer said and I agree, Pat is a great instructor who certainly continues to try, learn, and teach new things.

[gzhpcu]

Was Pat at IMG when Sharapova was 8 to 10?

If so, remember: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink...

[hockeyscout]

Question for don_budge

Yeah, I think pat is generally spot on.

Was Pat at IMG when Sharapova was 8 to 10?

[10splayer]

Yeah, I think pat is generally spot on.

[stroke]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GgdXawklcZk

Here ya go phil

I think Pat is spot on with his analysis in that video. You combine what he is teaching with the 180 degree arm rotation(initiated and completed by the shoulder) and you have what the highest level servers are doing.

[10splayer]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GgdXawklcZk

Here ya go phil

[gzhpcu]

I feel that the women are obsessed with jumping up when serving, and are forgetting to turn their shoulder more as the men do. Shoulder turn like here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8yZ-PUvz74

Once the rule that one foot had to stay in contact with the ground, the women started jumping upwards, forgetting the shoulder turn.