Racket Head Speed

[don_budge]

Mark Kovacs, PhD on tennisplayer.net

I tend to agree with this..Do you have a source, as I'd like to see if it squares with my thinking?

Mark Kovacs on "Cone Drills" and "Dynamic Warm Up and Strengthening":

https://www.tennisplayer.net/article/oncourt-training-part-2/

https://www.tennisplayer.net/article/oncourt-dynamic-warmup/

[10splayer]

Thanks DB

[10splayer]

http://youtu.be/vvhrtiS0lwU

Take a look at this beginning at 1:53 (some good exchanges) and focus on Fed..How does he flow out of the split step? Seems to me, he's trying to (as often as possible) jab/lead with the foot closest to the ball which keeps his center of gravity inside the base of support. A sprinter would never do this, so why would a tennis player if it's a slower, more labor intensive initiation process?


I find it amazing how much court he can cover WITHOUT having to use a process that moves the center of gravity outside the base.



Any thoughts?

[bottle]

I can be convinced, but if so, probably by a single slo-mo vidEO.

I just think that on a lot of shots Roger's stance, though wide, is not as wide as many other tour players.

And that width of stance is one of the determinants in whether outside foot retracts in a gravity step Michael Jackson style.

I just don't see how anybody can go anywhere without changing their center of gravity.

Whether the COG then goes outside somebody's foot-- hey, why should anyone care?

[10splayer]

I can be convinced, but if so, probably by a single slo-mo vidEO.

I just think that on a lot of shots Roger's stance, though wide, is not as wide as many other tour players.

And that width of stance is one of the determinants in whether outside foot retracts in a gravity step Michael Jackson style.

I just don't see how anybody can go anywhere without changing their center of gravity.

Whether the COG then goes outside somebody's foot-- hey, why should anyone care?

It was a bit of an open ended question..my bad. Would you agree that a gravity step is more explosive because of the lean of the torso in the direction of movement? And if so, what negative impacts would that have for a tennis player? (esp in the 2 and 3 step movement ) patterns. After all, if the entire goal in tennis was to get from point A to B in the quickest possible way,(like a sprinter) this would be the way to go. Wouldn't you think?

If you look at FED, he's choosing to step out (when he can) which keeps his center of mass between his feet and not create excessive torso tilt. Why would he do that if it's a slower more labor intensive way to move?

[bottle]

I like to try to stay in discussion at my own level of play-- stance probably not too wide compounded by being tall. But sure, the more imbalance you can guickly generate the faster your start. But-- another But-- most of the time you (I, it) want control more than explosiveness, so where on the court was I before all the questions came up? And other Buts: "explosiveness" suggests (to me at least) a big push with outside foot. But if I am listening to Alexander's Ragtime Band properly, the push is from snout to toe or from toe to snout or from hips working out in both directions with all of this creating "fall upward" so that gravity, not all the muscle work is what really makes one go fast through doing less. It's all certainly fun theory. BUT-- one has to put it into practice or it means nothing.

[stotty]

http://youtu.be/vvhrtiS0lwU

Take a look at this beginning at 1:53 (some good exchanges) and focus on Fed..How does he flow out of the split step? Seems to me, he's trying to (as often as possible) jab/lead with the foot closest to the ball which keeps his center of gravity inside the base of support. A sprinter would never do this, so why would a tennis player if it's a slower, more labor intensive initiation process?

I find it amazing how much court he can cover WITHOUT having to use a process that moves the center of gravity outside the base.

Any thoughts?

I take your point. The jab gets him directed/on the way really quick. I think also the innate is at work here. The way Federer flows and floats is a gift. Nastase was also equally gifted in the same way. I doubt Federer is as quick as Nadal or Nastase was as quick as Borg, but respectively they move better...if that makes sense...and certainly more beautifully.

I think Nadal is the closest (only at times) we have in tennis to a sprinter. He has a background in soccer and that definitely shows when he moves forward for a drop shot or a longish distance. He puts his head down and goes.

That said, I think Federer moves forward better than Nadal. He is more composed and better on arrival. He NEVER sprints even over an expanse.

I love the way Federer darts out of his split step so quickly. I think it's part of the secret. That first half a yard is everything in those rallies from 1.53 you mention. Much of the time it's just a couple of steps he is moving.

[10splayer]

I take your point. The jab gets him directed/on the way really quick. I think also the innate is at work here. The way Federer flows and floats is a gift. Nastase was also equally gifted in the same way. I doubt Federer is as quick as Nadal or Nastase was as quick as Borg, but respectively they move better...if that makes sense...and certainly more beautifully.

I think Nadal is the closest (only at times) we have in tennis to a sprinter. He has a background in soccer and that definitely shows when he moves forward for a drop shot or a longish distance. He puts his head down and goes.

That said, I think Federer moves forward better than Nadal. He is more composed and better on arrival. He NEVER sprints even over an expanse.

I love the way Federer darts out of his split step so quickly. I think it's part of the secret. That first half a yard is everything in those rallies from 1.53 you mention. Much of the time it's just a couple of steps he is moving.

Stotty,
He is the king of jab, (he has incredible range) but a gravity step would be quicker because the center of mass falls outside the base of support. He will only resort to that if he has to really get on his horse...It is my position that (and I've been called horrible, ugly names for it) hehe, is that tennis is not as much a running sport as many think. If you watch Fed here, he is using the jab step (even though is slower) as much as possible to initiate directional change....and avoid excessive torso tilt...Even in the most fundamental sense, this is the antithesis of what a sprinter does..

[stotty]

Stotty,
He is the king of jab, (he has incredible range) but a gravity step would be quicker because the center of mass falls outside the base of support. He will only resort to that if he has to really get on his horse...It is my position that (and I've been called horrible, ugly names for it) hehe, is that tennis is not as much a running sport as many think. If you watch Fed here, he is using the jab step (even though is slower) as much as possible to initiate directional change....and avoid excessive torso tilt...Even in the most fundamental sense, this is the antithesis of what a sprinter does..

A torso tilt is the last thing a tennis player wants. It would give him TOO much velocity. It would work against him on the next shot. The ability to brake, recover and redirect would suffer. A sprint is the last resort. Federer keeps his mostly straight back during all those rallies.

Amazing how he covers all that court in just a couple of strides...

[10splayer]

Right on bro....there's also the loading and redirecting momentum aspect which has a profound impact on racquet head speed.

[stotty]

Right on bro....there's also the loading and redirecting momentum aspect which has a profound impact on racquet head speed.

Yes I hadn't considered that. It's been an interesting exchange. Many thanks. Bedtime here in the UK...just coming up for midnight.

[don_budge]

Footwork (tennis movement)…ala Roger Federer (slo-mo)

Poetry in motion…unique movement. In ALL of sports. Not bad racquet head speed either.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/article/music-videos/

It's a game of energy and balance. Movement management.

[10splayer]

Poetry in motion…unique movement. In ALL of sports. Not bad racquet head speed either.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/article/music-videos/

It's a game of energy and balance. Movement management.

In the video I posted, it's obvious that Fed is not always using initiation and movement patterns that "red line" his speed capabilities. Because Roger knows, that there can be a trade off between top end speed and the ability to perform and intricate set of skills at the end of these bursts..Great movers have an ability to strike that balance given the situation.

"Movement management"..Perfect.

[don_budge]

Dancing with the Tennis Ball…ala Roger Federer

http://youtu.be/vvhrtiS0lwU
Any thoughts?

I remember at one point in my resurgence back to tennis that I was really interested in watching only Roger Federer. Not too much has actually changed. I would watch only Roger and not watch the ball or his opponent for that matter. Interestingly enough…I was watching some tennis and Rod Laver suggested viewing the tennis in the exact same manner.

Watching Roger in this video I find it validating to see that so many times his movement is initiated by a move that moves his feet together in a sort of skipping motion. Heel to heel. From there he makes the move to the ball with either his outside foot or his inside foot…whichever foot he feels instantaneously will get him to arrive to the ball in the manner that is necessary for him to hit the type of shot that he needs to hit.

From this little discussion it becomes apparent to me that there are no hard and fast "rules" of movement and that the whole process is more or less improvised by the player. It is sort of a Tango…and as Al Pacino said in the movie "The Scent of a Woman"…when dancing the Tango if you get tangled up…you just Tango on.

I teach my beginners footwork moving from the centre of the court to the sideline in a five step dance step.

1 heel to heel
2 outside foot extends and plants 90 degrees to the right
3 crossover with the left
4 plant the right foot close enough to the ball in order to...
5 step towards the ball and the net

[10splayer]

I remember at one point in my resurgence back to tennis that I was really interested in watching only Roger Federer. Not too much has actually changed. I would watch only Roger and not watch the ball or his opponent for that matter. Interestingly enough…I was watching some tennis and Rod Laver suggested viewing the tennis in the exact same manner.

Watching Roger in this video I find it validating to see that so many times his movement is initiated by a move that moves his feet together in a sort of skipping motion. Heel to heel. From there he makes the move to the ball with either his outside foot or his inside foot…whichever foot he feels instantaneously will get him to arrive to the ball in the manner that is necessary for him to hit the type of shot that he needs to hit.

From this little discussion it becomes apparent to me that there are no hard and fast "rules" of movement and that the whole process is more or less improvised by the player. It is sort of a Tango…and as Al Pacino said in the movie "The Scent of a Woman"…when dancing the Tango if you get tangled up…you just Tango on.

I teach my beginners footwork moving from the centre of the court to the sideline in a five step dance step.

1 heel to heel
2 outside foot extends and plants 90 degrees to the right
3 crossover with the left
4 plant the right foot close enough to the ball in order to...
5 step towards the ball and the net

I remember watching Scent of Woman for the first time, and wondering if I'd ever see a movie I like better.