Interactive Forum October 2018: Naomi Osaka Forehand

[tennishans 50]

It is interesting to see how women hit different than men. Strength and power make a difference and it seems that women have to get the racket back farther in order to generate power. Or maybe they have a bit more time. In any case, I think this is a very nice forehand for the baseline big basher era. However, my guess is that it is not as amenable to playing inside the court and to the type of adaptability needed to handle an approach shot with all types of different balls.

So it seems that she is able to generate plenty of power but that it requires her larger frame to do so.

Obviously, it is a great weapon but I really wonder how it would hold up if she were pressed with either slice or with someone making her hit the ball somewhere else besides the baseline.

Problem is there aren't too many women who make players do that regularly these days.

The longer backswing the less time you have before impact. You can get more power by flipping the hand, as you can see with the ATP-forehand. The racket head must be above the hand to get the flip motion, which is the third power source. Her racket is on the forehand side all the time, so that is different from the WTA-forehand. It is awesome to see women using the ATP-style forehand. That is the way to go. Even kids at 8 can do that, it is just a question that the coaches are willing to update the technique development on the women side.

[bottle]

Next thing to notice, in the view of one person, me. The extent to which Naomi Osaka does not straighten her knees in these forehands. Tom Okker in his famous forehand article in MASTERING YOUR TENNIS STROKES opines that lousy players straighten their legs too much thus depriving the stroke of easy power that comes when both knees press toward the net. Well, the legs straighten some. The body elongates too (Alexander effect?). But degree of something is what I point to here.

[bottle]

Fingers too bunched together. As a person always in the process of changing everything (which everybody but me thinks is an awful idea), I tell you I have enjoyed tennis more ever since I got the forefinger up the racket and put an emphasis on the ring formed by interlocking middle finger and thumb. All the other fingers including the spread index finger can be relaxed to the point of not even being on the handle for a flattened out shot with wrist fully laid back to provide natural as opposed to contrived firmness. But then when you want to wipe you can use the same ring to provide one purchase place on the racket with end of forefinger (slightly curled) to provide the other. The two purchase points can twirl the racket like a baton and you don't strain and get tired and maybe even hit the ball more cleanly. (Well, sometimes-- am trying to be honest here.)

[seano]

Donald Young is another who has/had way too much windshield wiper and not enough extension. He owned the juniors but when he joined the pros at a young age, his balls weren't heavy enough and couldn't keep up. He has hung around for a long time and currently has a ranking of 264. Tough way to make a living.

[stotty]

She was definitely hitting Serena off the court with that forehand. It's not often you see someone out hitting Serena, but Osaka did. Another player who has almost no extension is Sloane Stephens. Not sure what that means, if anything.

Monfils is another one with less than ideal extension, so it happens in the men's game too on occasion. While it doesn't seem to handicap some players in any way whatsoever you just wonder if their forehands might have been a tad better with better extension.

The trouble with coaching is someone always comes along and proves a so-called 'commonality' to not be an imperative we perhaps thought.

[jeffreycounts]

She was definitely hitting Serena off the court with that forehand. It's not often you see someone out hitting Serena, but Osaka did. Another player who has almost no extension is Sloane Stephens. Not sure what that means, if anything.

[teachestennis]

Clear on court in Major final example, showing that extension is way overrated for power generation with control.

That said, the key to her victory was her serving advantage, since other than the penalities and free points from Serena, off the ground Osaka hit very few winners to go along with forcing few errors from Serena.

[coachstevephd]

Great video and my immediate impression was her more ATP/Collegiate men's initial take back prep or swing...tip forward a bit etc (Stoser, et al as well), but then the clear lack of follow through as pointed out by many of you. Sparky (AK Arturo Hernandez--Coach Clark here, go 'Eaters) wisely stated that these big back swings are not conducive to forward minded games, and difficulty on low slices etc but again, not many hit them to these players. Which by the way, numerous women's WTA coaches would say, and I agree, if you can develop a female player (and guys now too often lack this) who can slice and attack they will do well as they can upset the cookie cutter big swings and playing back. Anyway, there are so many factors for this swing. Eg. shoulder girdle strength, triceps strength etc and when she has the short quick whip at the end (not extending) that can put strain on the arm and joint. Kind of like if a pitcher was throwing a heater then stopped his arm abruptly. Delpo has a huge back swing but has the clean swing to maximize it as well with a full follow through. Shapovalov, when he first came on the scene some coaches mentioned the lack of extension (the junior like bent elbow). But strong athletes can overcompensate technical issues. Great stuff John. Steve Clark at CoachSteveClarkPhD.com

[carlpro]

I would like to see her timing and contact compared to Kim Clisters and Steffi Graf. Obviously 3 very different techniques but very similar in how long they wait on the ball and contact point.

[cms56]

Complete agree.

[andersonjc]

If she achieves more extension she will definitely generate more power and spin, which can only be good for her game. She should also stop catching the racket after the wrap as this action invariably serves to encourage a short swing through without achieving full extension.

[cms56]

Good observation on the elbow. There's something simply unnatural about the wrap. It just doesn't flow. Perhaps it's because she appears to be a bit late and slightly jammed in a good percentage of her shots. When it comes to outcomes, none of that seems to matter much at all, though, and she would very professionally kick my beautiful extension and early contact right down the street, so I think I'll leave off with a sincere congratulations to her and best wishes for a long and successful career. Looks to me to be a good ambassador for the game.

[benjamin]

so .. not a big fan of the heavy wiper FH ... it looks like the wiper occurs way after contact , and She has a strange pop up elbow at end of the wiper???

[cms56]

Re extension: if she had it, what difference would it make? Since contact happens before full extension, what would achieving full extension actually accomplish? In Ms. Osaka's case, I submit that it would make little to no difference. Conversely, I submit that the lack of extension (at least in the sample clips) is an indication that she has a one dimensional forehand and doesn't even have full extension in her repertoire. [Her U.S. Open title is good evidence that such a limitation isn't all that limiting though, isn't it?] On the other hand, one does wonder why the more natural full extension forehand isn't something she would gravitate to as a matter of course in hitting a series of shots. Why doesn't it just happen naturally? [Yep, this is a rhetorical question.] The double-bend structure Yandell has done a nice job of describing is now pretty popular, and it's easy and compact (great advantages). But students are enslaved to teaching models and seemingly rarely find their way to natural kinetic chain mechanics, which would show up as full extension in the forehand -- a least on a good proportion of shots where urgency isn't an issue. That's because a properly executed kinetic chain includes the differential relaxation of each set of muscles that have completed their concentric contraction phase, and when you relax an accelerating arm moving forward and up in a forehand, the arm would nearly or entirely straighten (just like an arm relaxed after a properly executed serve pronates and internally rotates because of where the centers of mass are located relative to the planes of motion of the elbow and shoulder. The double bend structure is a rigid expression (an exaggeration, really) of the windshield wiper motion in which momentum is impeded and the arm is held in its structure. I suspect it's a learned habit to please an uninformed teacher.

On the good side, Ms. Osaka is rare among WTA players in not pre-setting a hyperextended wrist and an abducted and externally rotated arm, and thereby squandering the stored elastic energy generated in the eccentric phase of the SSC by putting the shoulder and wrist into a refractory phase. That's the big fault of the women generally. Can't figure out why, but it's an observation. Ms. Osaka appears to have avoided that fault.

[drsous]

There are many ways to hit a forehand. The test is does it stand up to pressure and does it hurt your opponent with acceptable consistency. Yes. So her combination of grip, swing, footwork and body movement works great. I hope she has a great career.