McEnroe BH Slice Approach Questions

[don_budge]

My Thoughts on the McEnroe Backhand...January 1, 2013

I need feedback from those who saw Mac at his peak as the forum has recently talked about Bh Slice approaches. In reviewing a frame by frame advance in Yandell’s archive: McEnroe’s “BH Slice Approach BH Volley”, Mac contacted the ball with a slice at the baseline!!! His 5th step toward the net was then split. Exclusive of his great ability to read the return, how does he have time to take that many steps and advance that far and still stay balanced?

Was it: 1 Tremendous footspeed 2. Ability to keep the ball in the air a long time. 3. Incredible depth accuracy 4. All of the above
His ball seems to stay forever in the air, allowing him to get so close to the net. Does this shot have any value for upcoming juniors? Or does the power game make that such a low percentage attempt that few pros are really to try.? have seen a few people get that long “hang time” with a bh slice by using a slightly Eastern FOREHAND grip.

Good questions doctorhl. I too am/was fascinated by the uncanny ability of John McEnroe throughout his career. I was lucky to see him very early on in a very infamous match at the U. S. Open qualifying in 1975 I think it was. A friend of my friend that I was with told me that John McEnroe was going to be the greatest tennis player in the world. The next Ilie Nastase were his exact words.

I did my PhD thesis on "All things McEnronian" here on this website. I guess that is why sometimes I am referred to as dr. don_budge here on the forum. So I reposted the "My Thoughts on the McEnroe Backhand" thread that I wrote some years ago. Time seems to stand still when you are having so much fun. Don't you think so?

[doctorhl]

I would have liked to also have seen Mac’s service flight path live. His wide serve to the ad court seemed to stay in the air forever, allowing him to often close out with a volley at or inside of his service line.

[stotty]

McEnroe was certainly upright...almost like his shoulders were being held back by some invisible puppet wiring...weird. I haven't studied his turns but will take a look in the archive. McEnroe certainly hit the ground running after his serve and seemed to have more forward momentum than most. One thing etched in my mind about McEnroe is the long walk back to the baseline for his second if he missed his first...that kind of says something. His racket never sounded as loose as people said. Borg's by contrast sounded ridiculously tight...like a tin drum. Those guys were great in their time. Every bit as good in their era as Roger and co. are today. I absolutely loved them.

I wonder what the game would look like today if everyone who entered Wimbledon 2019 had to play with a wooden racket. My guess would be a dramatic slowdown and shanks left, right and centre.

[John Yandell]

HL,
Agree on the upright. But disagree on the turns. Look at his groundstrokes and volleys in the music video section. Huge shoulder turns on both sides. I hit with John's rackets in 1984 and although the tension wasn't 70 it felt like more than 40. Maybe it was the stiff gut. I think the big difference is the speed of the game. If you look for example at Sampras serve and volley sequences in the archives you'll see he doesn't get near as far in. Landing, one step and then split. First volley usually well behind service line.

[doctorhl]

I know what John means. McEnroe was explosively quick, especially going forward. You had to see him live to appreciate that aspect of his movement. He was a floater and ghosted around. Floaters are the best movers and often the fastest in given areas of court coverage. Roger floats, Nastase did too.

I loved the nuances of McEnroe's backhand; the dinks, the nudges, some weighted more than others. I loved the way he lowered his backswing for lower balls and raised up for higher balls. He got the racket more behind the ball as oppose to the steep chop down you see players do today.

I teach this type of backhand almost exclusively unless I feel a junior has a smattering of a chance to advance far in the game. I have to add that the 'steeper' chop down tends to get learned naturally as a direct consequence of 'having to' for reasons stated above by John.

Stotty and John: Mac seemed to stay upright all the time and didn’t have much shoulder or hip turn on strokes or volleys. This seemed especially prevalent on attacking “half volley” nudges. This lack of turn let him get in a quick upright forward running motion. Is it true that his racket tension was in around 40 lbs racket string tension in a 70 lb. tension world at that time? That would seem to help him “trampoline” the ball deep with little hip/ shoulder turn or knee bend, giving him time to close in quickly.

[John Yandell]

Stotty, Agreed! That's what I teach as well. It's completely underrated and underused in the vast majority of the tennis world!

[stotty]

I know what John means. McEnroe was explosively quick, especially going forward. You had to see him live to appreciate that aspect of his movement. He was a floater and ghosted around. Floaters are the best movers and often the fastest in given areas of court coverage. Roger floats, Nastase did too.

I loved the nuances of McEnroe's backhand; the dinks, the nudges, some weighted more than others. I loved the way he lowered his backswing for lower balls and raised up for higher balls. He got the racket more behind the ball as oppose to the steep chop down you see players do today.

I teach this type of backhand almost exclusively unless I feel a junior has a smattering of a chance to advance far in the game. I have to add that the 'steeper' chop down tends to get learned naturally as a direct consequence of 'having to' for reasons stated above by John.

[John Yandell]

Great questions. I saw Johnny many times and of course filmed him. His quickness was unequaled and under rated. But the question for today is whether the classic slice has viability and at what levels. At everything below elite junior tennis and up, definitely. There are several articles in Advanced Tennis though about the classic slice and the so-called modern slice. At the spin rates and velocities at the top of the current game, it's impossible to control the ball with that simple, relatively flat motion. This is why you see so much more dramatic downward swing patterns in pro tennis.

[doctorhl]

I need feedback from those who saw Mac at his peak as the forum has recently talked about Bh Slice approaches. In reviewing a frame by frame advance in Yandell’s archive: McEnroe’s “BH Slice Approach BH Volley”, Mac contacted the ball with a slice at the baseline!!! His 5th step toward the net was then split. Exclusive of his great ability to read the return, how does he have time to take that many steps and advance that far and still stay balanced?

Was it: 1 Tremendous footspeed 2. Ability to keep the ball in the air a long time. 3. Incredible depth accuracy 4. All of the above
His ball seems to stay forever in the air, allowing him to get so close to the net. Does this shot have any value for upcoming juniors? Or does the power game make that such a low percentage attempt that few pros are really to try.? have seen a few people get that long “hang time” with a bh slice by using a slightly Eastern FOREHAND grip.