Nadal's New Serve

[stotty]

The Title of this Thread would seem to Invite More Thought on its Subject (but not on it's Subject).

So could someone please explain how Nadal's serve is different from the way it was before? Somebody has already suggested that it is not different. Which might remind one that the more something tries to change the more it stays the same.

I'll look up an old Nadalian serve. Here's one. (https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...tationRear.mov). Hmmm, platform. The new one is pinpoint, right?

Anything else?

I actually I took a close look at it today but couldn't find any difference. It did look different in the original clip I posted but seems to have reverted back now the tournament has started. His tossing arm still finishes well behind his body when fully extended then takes a tad too long to clear away, which were supposed to be the things his team were working on.

The proof of the pudding is in the stats. He is normally around the 70% mark for first serves in. His first serve speed was always around the 115mph mark and his second in the mid 90s mph. Anyone know his stats so far this Aussie Open?

I will have a look at the highlights later to see if I can spot anything further.

[bottle]

Very interesting. Thanks.

[don_budge]

That's a first. I have never seen him miss a smash, whether they are mop-up types or back peddle and jump types. Roger the same. Both men have outstanding overheads

That is about all he missed. He dusted the Brit up quite neatly. By the way...the two flubbed volleys and the netted overhead were a three shot sequence in one point. Probably the three worst shots of the match for Nadal.

[bottle]

Pinpoint, platform? Or he had been pinpoint long enough so that before and after didn't count there? Or the difference between pinpoint and platform is exaggerated? The tennis serve doesn't really care?

I am open to all these possibilities since I am a liberal.

[don_budge]

I actually I took a close look at it today but couldn't find any difference. It did look different in the original clip I posted but seems to have reverted back now the tournament has started. His tossing arm still finishes well behind his body when fully extended then takes a tad too long to clear away, which were supposed to be the things his team were working on.

The proof of the pudding is in the stats. He is normally around the 70% mark for first serves in. His first serve speed was always around the 115mph mark and his second in the mid 90s mph. Anyone know his stats so far this Aussie Open?

I will have a look at the highlights later to see if I can spot anything further.

I watched the match off and on. It appears to me that he has abbreviated his pre-serve routine. There is absolutely nothing different about his service motion. Zero. Nada. Zippo. That being said he served pretty well.

[bottle]

I watched the match off and on. It appears to me that he has abbreviated his pre-serve routine. There is absolutely nothing different about his service motion. Zero. Nada. Zippo. That being said he served pretty well.

Oh God, not that business of posting and then deleting again to make the other guy seem silly when he refers to the deleted post. I THINK that's what happened here. More interesting than mind obfuscation, to me at least, is whether there has been a change in Nadal's serve. don_budge thinks not. Maybe not a signficant change. But I did identify a before and after of platform and pinpoint and don't know why that couldn't be addressed forthrightly even by a Russian and German soldier about to kill each other on the eastern front.

None of this matters on the cosmological level, of course. But we all might do well to value Samuel Johnson. He wrote, "Easy writing makes curs't hard reading."

[bottle]

His tossing arm... takes a tad too long to clear away.

How refreshing. I've NEVER heard anybody say this. It's always "keep the tossing arm up for longer." Seems like common sense that between extremes there is a place that is best.

[stroke]

I think he is a very mediocre volleyer. The only time he hits volleys or overheads are on mop up points. I would like to see him at the net more too. I think his opponents might try to draw him in. but that is of course a very, very tricky proposition.

I just watched him flub to backhand volleys and then net a smash.

It is very difficult to employ the draw him in to the net tactic because he can get his forehand up and down like no other with his spin. I also think his overhead is one of the best out there. His volleys are pretty good, but he is not in a continental grip on either side to me, which obviously is less than ideal.

[stotty]

It is very difficult to employ the draw him in to the net tactic because he can get his forehand up and down like no other with his spin. I also think his overhead is one of the best out there. His volleys are pretty good, but he is not in a continental grip on either side to me, which obviously is less than ideal.

By today's standards, Nadal volleys really well. His backhand volley is usually rock solid. His forehand volley is the wing that can be dicey. For some reason lefties are often suspect on the forehand volley.

You're right that it can be a suicide tactic drawing Nadal into the net, but it might be worth employing just to get him off that baseline maybe break his rhythm.

I still think he has an amazing overhead that compares with anyone's from any era.

[don_budge]

It is very difficult to employ the draw him in to the net tactic because he can get his forehand up and down like no other with his spin. I also think his overhead is one of the best out there. His volleys are pretty good, but he is not in a continental grip on either side to me, which obviously is less than ideal.

By today's standards, Nadal volleys really well. His backhand volley is usually rock solid. His forehand volley is the wing that can be dicey. For some reason lefties are often suspect on the forehand volley.

You're right that it can be a suicide tactic drawing Nadal into the net, but it might be worth employing just to get him off that baseline maybe break his rhythm.

I still think he has an amazing overhead that compares with anyone's from any era.

There are number of good points here from stroke and stotty. It comes down to several things. First of all...it is risk reward. If you can successfully throw Rafael Nadal out of his rhythm you are playing on a more level ground. But it is tough and modern players don't have all of the shots in their bag. To draw him in a player might have to be a legitimate threat in the forecourt themselves in all forms including half volleys and good touch volleys. Nonexistent in 99.9% of the modern players.

Secondly this is tactical manoeuvring and again the knock against the modern player is that they are all pretty much one dimensional as I believe Nadal is. To be able to play the forecourt of your opponent you have to be capable of not only knocking the ball hard and deep but changing the rhythm of your own strokes to find the area closer to the net. Djokovic has successfully shown Nadal that he is very capable and dangerous of attacking his forehand side and why shouldn't he be? Eighty-five percent of all opponents are right handed and normally the attack begins on the backhand. This is the natural inclination so why not follow it? Novak has been very successful at this. Roger Federer to has found that with his beefed up backhand with the newer and bigger racquet that he can also find the forehand vulnerable and once you move Nadal off of his camp on the backhand side where he is forcing you to play to the forehand you have him out of his comfort zone. But you have to maintain the pressure.

There are certain circumstances that I could see Novak and Roger employing the short ball in a manner where it is impossible or at least unlikely that Nadal will be able to attack it. This would be a viable tactic to throw in situational scenarios. But there aren't too many players that can play Nadal evenly for the two or three shots without falling back on the defence.

Tactics are an interesting part of the game. At least it used to be before this one dimensional game has taken hold. But all they have to do is speed up the courts incremental and you would find that it would be possible to get the ball to lay down more and make it more difficult to play the strong gripped forehand inside of the service line.

You have to analyse the technique and the conditions to understand what is possible and what is viable. You guys make a good point about a number of things. But under any other conditions where Nadal would be forced to volley balls out of his comfort zone you would surely see his technique crumble. He is not very sound at the net. His overhead is pretty good but if the conditions were speeded up a bit you would see players able to set him up for the lob instead of playing it when he most expects it and is able to anticipate it.

[stotty]

Nadal looks somehow more upright on his serve. Maybe it's because he is using a fraction less knee bend or something. Something has changed, I just cannot quite put my finger on it, yet.

[don_budge]

Nadal looks somehow more upright on his serve. Maybe it's because he is using a fraction less knee bend or something. Something has changed, I just cannot quite put my finger on it, yet.

He has abbreviated his pre-serve routine. He has eliminated the shoulder touches and goes right to the ear-nose-ear routine.

[stroke]

He has abbreviated his pre-serve routine. He has eliminated the shoulder touches and goes right to the ear-nose-ear routine.

ha, more importantly, his forehand looks unchanged

[don_budge]

ha, more importantly, his forehand looks unchanged

He has left the part about pulling the shorts out of his butt alone. He still initiates the routine with the tug.

[stotty]

He doesn't seem to sink down and back as he commences the motion as early as he used to, nor as much. I have not sure what he gains by this other than minor re-synching. Maybe he's trying to synch the drive up to that ball better.

What I really don't like about Rafa's serve is the way his tossing arm travels back behind his body at full extension. There cannot be any benefit in doing that as far as I can see. Think about it? Your trying the get weight forward and your tossing arm is still going back as the racket is about to commence it's journey forward. I would be interesting to know what BG and John think about that aspect of his serve and the implications, if any, it has.