The Serve: Probation!

[nickw]

I would like to go back to the question of why it is so difficult for players to synchronize the beginning of the backswing with the beginning of knee extension.
It takes a lot of time for the legs to go down and stop (before they can go up). Let’s assume this time interval is constant.
Before reaching the trophy position the hand with a racquet accelerate first and then decelerate. It is quite easy to accelerate them but the deceleration actually takes a lot of time and effort. I would like to elaborate on that.
a. To decelerate the hand you have to contract muscles of your arm and shoulder. But from the beginning players learn to relax their arm and shoulder. It is a conflict.
b. In addition you need to decelerate the racquet head in the trophy position. For that you need a firmer wrist. Again from the beginning players learn to relax it. It is one more conflict in the mind.
c. What is the possible solution? The player should begin to decelerate his (her) hand and the racquet early in the motion.
d. Possible analogy here is a deceleration of a train. If you want to stop it at a station you need to begin slowing it down very early, long before the station and keep doing it. Only then the train will slow down smoothly, in time.
The same way players should learn to begin the deceleration of his (her) hand and the racquet early in the motion. By the time they get into the trophy position the knee extension should begin.
e. It seems easier to practice this motion (at the beginning of a lesson) without an actual ball toss.

I would say the solution is to keep the acceleration of the hand to as little as possible. The less speed the hand builds up, the easier and more natural it is to decelerate it. Smooth and deliberate through this phase of the serve, as per my 1-2 rhythm concept (articles on this site). It never looks right when players rush the racket to trophy position, which often leads to poor timing and lack of acceleration through the hitting phase. The slower and smoother you can make it, the better you prepare for phase 2 which of course starts with the explosive driving up of the legs. It's like very slowly pulling back a slingshot, and then release...BANG! Maybe that makes some sense

[lovati4]

It seems unusual to compare hand movement up with a train movement. It takes a lot of time to stop a train because of its mass. For the hand, when initial acceleration is over it has some velocity. After that shoulder and arm muscles are very relaxed. They cannot stop the racquet head on their own. It is like stopping your racquet during a forehand before the follow through and a stretch on the back of the shoulder.
Fortunately in our case we have an assistance of gravity. Gravity decelerates the hand and the racquet while they are moving up to the trophy position. But with relaxed muscles they keep moving up for a while in spite of gravity. To slow or stop the racquet in the trophy position we actually need to stop accelerating the racquet early on the way up. It gives gravity time to do its job. Even here we need some effort (muscle contraction) to slow down the racquet head.
One extra point is that it might be better to have an angle of less than 90° for the racquet head in the trophy position. If you have it on edge and your knees are not ready to extend yet gravity will make the racquet drop into the backswing too early.

[lovati4]

I would like to go back to the question of why it is so difficult for players to synchronize the beginning of the backswing with the beginning of knee extension.
It takes a lot of time for the legs to go down and stop (before they can go up). Let’s assume this time interval is constant.
Before reaching the trophy position the hand with a racquet accelerate first and then decelerate. It is quite easy to accelerate them but the deceleration actually takes a lot of time and effort. I would like to elaborate on that.
a. To decelerate the hand you have to contract muscles of your arm and shoulder. But from the beginning players learn to relax their arm and shoulder. It is a conflict.
b. In addition you need to decelerate the racquet head in the trophy position. For that you need a firmer wrist. Again from the beginning players learn to relax it. It is one more conflict in the mind.
c. What is the possible solution? The player should begin to decelerate his (her) hand and the racquet early in the motion.
d. Possible analogy here is a deceleration of a train. If you want to stop it at a station you need to begin slowing it down very early, long before the station and keep doing it. Only then the train will slow down smoothly, in time.
The same way players should learn to begin the deceleration of his (her) hand and the racquet early in the motion. By the time they get into the trophy position the knee extension should begin.
e. It seems easier to practice this motion (at the beginning of a lesson) without an actual ball toss.

[postpre]

Roddick?

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...euceFront1.mp4

You are right about Roddick, his strings are facing more toward the net earlier, but as he passes through the so called trophy position they are facing more toward the right fence.

But, a few more examples of huge servers where their strings are facing the net are Karlovic and Copil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmmmGm9fAcU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqAXjGCOZ-I

These guys serve huge, and have a continuous motion (but have obviously learned to time their leg drive superbly).

[don_budge]

At the probation point, Jarry's strings are definitely not facing the right side fence, but rather more toward the net. This seems to be comfortable for quite a few servers. I fail to see how this limits the effectiveness of the serve, as some suggest. Especially considering Raonic, Sock, Roddick, and many others.

Roddick?

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/andyroddick/ar_serve/ar_1st_serve/ar_1st_serve.html?AR1stSDeuceFront1.mp4

[stroke]

At the probation point, Jarry's strings are definitely not facing the right side fence, but rather more toward the net. This seems to be comfortable for quite a few servers. I fail to see how this limits the effectiveness of the serve, as some suggest. Especially considering Raonic, Sock, Roddick, and many others.

I find this racquet strings facing position at probation point interesting also, and I certainly don't dispute Brian's take on the preferred position. I reviewed the Todd Martin serve and it appears to me his serve is pretty much the same as Jarry's, and his strings at probation point are facing the right side. Not sure why as their wrist position seems the same. It may be Todd has slightly more body turn.

[postpre]

How about Nicolas Jarry starting from the probation?

At the probation point, Jarry's strings are definitely not facing the right side fence, but rather more toward the net. This seems to be comfortable for quite a few servers. I fail to see how this limits the effectiveness of the serve, as some suggest. Especially considering Raonic, Sock, Roddick, and many others.

[don_budge]

How about Nicolas Jarry starting from the probation?

Brian told me that Nicolas started with him about 13 years ago and just never got out of jail...I mean probation.

[gzhpcu]

How about Nicolas Jarry starting from the probation?

[don_budge]

Fedinand Celine...the three little dots

Your thoughts on Brian Gordon's "The Serve: Probation!"?

Thanks for the comments and words of encouragement. Glad some found the video (and series) at least entertaining and interesting if not informative. I suppose the man in black analogy should be amended to the man in black that needs to get his weight challenged ass in the gym - one would think that 10-14 hours a day on the court in Florida heat would keep one in better shape - one would be mistaken lol.

The "Probation" segment is an excellent place to begin in correcting any improprieties in motions that not totally free of friction. I worked with my protege, Gustaf, several times in the past couple of weeks and today I sent him a message that said..."We should try to complete the installation of the perfect frictionless motion and introduce the idea of supreme confidence in the motion. Serve and volley." So much progress was made in ironing out the little kinks and points of friction by referring to this "Probation" point and then trying to get the backswing right to get the student in this position with the right timing going forwards. So I have to hand it to you in this regard...an excellent teaching tool and thanks for sharing.

Secondly the idea of what you refer to as "forward rotation" as opposed to "twist rotation". A very important distinction as well that makes it easier to explain to the student as to what exactly it is that we are trying to accomplish with our body rotation.

I'm so glad that I transcribed this particular segment of your serving lesson. There are several pearls in this that deserve to be mentioned and repeated over and over.

Good stuff Doctor Brian. Some really substantial food for thought. For the student and the teacher.

Synchronizing the Legs…Dr. Brian Gordon

Transcribed from the video below:

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...zing_the_legs/

But for the most part the whole thing is set up to produce a forward rotation and not a twisting rotation.

Again to be very, very clear, whether she comes into this continuously or whether she stops her racquet in a hesitation point, the leg drive should commence exactly as the racquet breaks into the backswing and conclude exactly as the racquet exits the backswing. That would indicate perfect timing. It’s very, very important that timing is correct because you may have noticed that in Kayla when I take her into this position of external rotation I’m basically having to crank her shoulder right out of her body.

That’s because you cannot really do that in a static situation. The only way that this can be done in a real way is if her shoulder is incredibly relaxed.The only way she can relax her shoulder is if this external rotation is being caused by something other than a muscular activity doing this. The action that will do it is if she pushes with her legs up a force will be applied to her arm here and because of the orientation that force to the racquet it will make the racquet essentially go down her back as a function of inertia.

Brian -

2) If you were her coach when she was a youngster, could you give me a progression of steps you would take to maximize her serve talent? Start with "Probation" to synchronize lower/upper body, then what...? Control swing path? Develop more of a "sweeping" motion in external rotation? I feel it's very useful to hear your thoughts. Thank you again.

SeanO

Sorry for the delay folks - decided to try to lose the beer belly by spending extra time on the court putting the kids on probation - a lot of extra time - didn't work.

don_budge - we agree completely on the pendulum windup. My experience has been though that a bad pendulum is like eating a bad clam - messy and painful. Many of my players simply can't hit the hesitation point out of that windup no matter how hard they try. Rather than fit a square peg into a round hole and since I've found the critical actions start at the hesitation point I let them figure out how to get there in a way that ensures the integrity of the position and my sanity. The serve and volley emphasis is a great tool!

Seano - I don't know anything about her injury so can not speculate what caused it. I would have built her serve the same way I do all my players - use probation to build the backswing plane and lower-upper body synchronization - then build in a windup with a hesitation - then focus on the upper body body rotations and sequencing. That is the template I use for every player I work with.

Injury Discussion -

The most we can say is that there is a link between mechanics and the POTENTIAL for injury. I could site (but won't) numerous mechanical flaws that could cause acute and chronic injury. These could be identified as part of a biomechanical profile but that would require intense analysis with very sophisticated technology and a lot of expertise. Even with decent mechanics the repetitive nature and physical demands of the sport open the door for a myriad of chronic problems from serious to annoying.

Whether the mechanical problems (or simply the demands of high level tennis) WILL cause debilitating injury depends on several individual factors (some pointed out) including genetics (particularly muscle fiber type distribution), lifestyle (sleep, nutrition, hydration), and training (physical preparation). Gender also plays a role as it has been shown that females are more susceptible to musculo-skeletal injury when estrogen levels increase as part of their monthly cycle.

Just connecting some dots. Thinking out loud. I'm obsessed with those dots...the three little dots. Ever since I read Ferdinand Celine. I've never been the same. I inherited that whirring sound in his head. Only it is more of a "swoosh". Like the sound of the racquet head or club head passing through the path of the shot. Come to think of it...the shot is like a sequence of dots. We could say 365 dots in a row. Just for instance. Something that we can all relate to. The number of days in a year. Think of the earth as a shot...going around the sun. It does go around the sun, doesn't it? I heard it did.

I threw all of these comments up in a row...in a sequence. John and Brian...I really loved this series. Brian...the beer belly just gives us more of you to love. Thanks for sharing in your hard work. It really paid off. Probation...takes on a whole different meaning.

I'm speaking of my protege. Gustaf Adolfsson. I've been working with him for going on ten years here in Sweden. His game is built on fundamentals right out of the book of Bill Tilden. But one does not live on Tilden alone. So we branch out. Searching here and there. Until...you arrive at the "Holy Grail". Let's just call it the hesitation point. Keep it simple. So as not to lose anybody.

Gustaf has always had a "decent" service motion but to my coaching eye there has always been a perceptible bit of friction in his swing. As Brian notes it is a little crazy trying to iron out these little friction points. If only I were an acupuncturist with the infintisimal knowledge of "chi". That twelve meridians of energy that flows like the eternal spring through the course of the human body. With just a needle inserted in the correct place you can smooth out the flow. A pain in the foot is corrected with a needle in the nose. Go figure. So it goes with service swings. A little anomaly in the backswing turns into some sort of compensatory move in the action at the ball. It gets complicated.

But amazingly enough it was starting in the middle that helped us to solve this riddle. I was on to it when I replied to seano's post addressed to Brian. It was already manifesting itself like white light between me and the student. I had him hit balls out of the "Probation" position. We took our time but we were persistent. I kept him at it until he had a reasonable feel for whatever it was that Brian was looking for out of this abbreviated motion. Start in the middle. At the transition point. That point between the backswing and the forwards swing. Like twilight...that magical and mystical point where it is no longer day and not yet the night. Or halftime in a man's life...where you transition from young to "not young". Halftime...just imagine.

Then it was as seano guessed..."control the swing path". Interesting comment to be sure. Love the comments seano...it is food for thought. It sure got me thinking as if I wasn't already. So with Gustaf "controlling his swing path" became the second piece of the puzzle. We went back to the beginning at the setup position...to set the "track" of the backswing. See my rollercoaster of serving if you care to. But the track...it is only an imaginary meridian of energy from the setup to the "Hesitation Point". How to get there with the proper speed so that the racquet head just spills over the edge...that was the name of the game. A tinker here...a tinker there. Voila!!! Ten years of collaboration and we arrive at perfection. Frictionless serving.

I get a little carried away here. Just glimpses of the potential final product. I saw it. Yesterday. We'll tinker with it and put in play for a couple of hours before he leaves for Berlin. Thanks Brian. You too seano. John...this was a super lesson on the serve. Thank you...Sirs.

[John Yandell]

He is worthy of blame on several fronts

[stotty]

Stotty,
I thought you had changed to a platform!

I have. I just changed too late. The damage is done. That clip was 8 years ago. I like my serve but deeply regret not being platform from birth. I blame Nastase because it was he I tried to copy all those years ago.

[BrianGordon]

Sorry for the delay folks - decided to try to lose the beer belly by spending extra time on the court putting the kids on probation - a lot of extra time - didn't work.

don_budge - we agree completely on the pendulum windup. My experience has been though that a bad pendulum is like eating a bad clam - messy and painful. Many of my players simply can't hit the hesitation point out of that windup no matter how hard they try. Rather than fit a square peg into a round hole and since I've found the critical actions start at the hesitation point I let them figure out how to get there in a way that ensures the integrity of the position and my sanity. The serve and volley emphasis is a great tool!

Seano - I don't know anything about her injury so can not speculate what caused it. I would have built her serve the same way I do all my players - use probation to build the backswing plane and lower-upper body synchronization - then build in a windup with a hesitation - then focus on the upper body body rotations and sequencing. That is the template I use for every player I work with.

Injury Discussion -

The most we can say is that there is a link between mechanics and the POTENTIAL for injury. I could cite (but won't) numerous mechanical flaws that could cause acute and chronic injury. These could be identified as part of a biomechanical profile but that would require intense analysis with very sophisticated technology and a lot of expertise. Even with decent mechanics the repetitive nature and physical demands of the sport open the door for a myriad of chronic problems from serious to annoying.

Whether the mechanical problems (or simply the demands of high level tennis) WILL cause debilitating injury depends on several individual factors (some pointed out) including genetics (particularly muscle fiber type distribution), lifestyle (sleep, nutrition, hydration), and training (physical preparation). Gender also plays a role as it has been shown that females are more susceptible to musculo-skeletal injury when estrogen levels increase as part of their monthly cycle.

[John Yandell]

Stotty,
I thought you had changed to a platform!

[gzhpcu]

Very nice looking serve stotty.