ATP home page: Sam Querry explains serve

[gzhpcu]

lots of misleading information:
- hold racket firmly
- power comes mainly from legs
...
This is why tennisplayer.net is so invaluable...

[gzhpcu]

[klacr]

Sam hits the toss at its peak? Video shows otherwise.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[John Yandell]

I've seen worse explanations...leg drive helps a lot. but no it's not "most". Right about toss height Kyle. Interesting how they edited the video to hide that. At least he didn't talk about wrist snap...

[gzhpcu]

My main gripe is holding the racket firmly...

[nytennisaddict]

I've seen worse explanations...leg drive helps a lot. but no it's not "most". Right about toss height Kyle. Interesting how they edited the video to hide that. At least he didn't talk about wrist snap...

i wonder if the "most comes from legs" idea is because it was the last power source he mastered that let him go from say 115 to 130 (or whatever his max is)...

[Error]

The wrist snap is valid as is pronation and leg drive etc. The issue is you cant really teach any of this, At least that is my opinion based on my experience of teaching tennis.. I've had very good results be teaching very basic fundamentals. With the serve its Stance, Grip, Toss and Contact Point. that's about it. If you master those things everything else will follow. The problem is it takes a really long time and I mean a REALLY LONG TIME, lots of practice and a very disciplined student to master those things.
So right off the bat we can forget 90% of the people because for whatever reason legitimate or otherwise, they are not going to put in the work and that's where the idea of "shortcuts" come in.

After the fundamentals are mastered, the mind and body figure out ways to be more effective and efficient but it only happens as you continue to progress and practice. The more you practice the correct fundamentals the more the world of tennis knowledge opens up for you. Its an internal thing. The instructor can get the ball rolling and then its up to the student. What we have with all the youtube coaches are ways they say you can bypass all of the fundamental development and go right to the wrist snap and racket lag and pronation and leg drive and on and on and on. It doesn't work that way. There are no shortcuts, no secrets to the serve or any other stroke. There is only fundamental practice. But fundamental practice doesn't sell a lot of subscriptions and videos.

[arturohernandez]

The wrist snap is valid as is pronation and leg drive etc. The issue is you cant really teach any of this, At least that is my opinion based on my experience of teaching tennis.. I've had very good results be teaching very basic fundamentals. With the serve its Stance, Grip, Toss and Contact Point. that's about it. If you master those things everything else will follow. The problem is it takes a really long time and I mean a REALLY LONG TIME, lots of practice and a very disciplined student to master those things.
So right off the bat we can forget 90% of the people because for whatever reason legitimate or otherwise, they are not going to put in the work and that's where the idea of "shortcuts" come in.

After the fundamentals are mastered, the mind and body figure out ways to be more effective and efficient but it only happens as you continue to progress and practice. The more you practice the correct fundamentals the more the world of tennis knowledge opens up for you. Its an internal thing. The instructor can get the ball rolling and then its up to the student. What we have with all the youtube coaches are ways they say you can bypass all of the fundamental development and go right to the wrist snap and racket lag and pronation and leg drive and on and on and on. It doesn't work that way. There are no shortcuts, no secrets to the serve or any other stroke. There is only fundamental practice. But fundamental practice doesn't sell a lot of subscriptions and videos.

Funny you mention the length of time and the simplicity of it. I have been working with my daughter on her serve since she was 8 or so. We were out last night working on it and I still make videos to adjust things as we go along.

All of our practices involve at least 10-15 minutes of serving. If she really needs to work on something we might spend 30 minutes on it.

At high school practice, they never practice serves. At academy practice they rarely practice serves.

I see bad grips, horrible tosses, poor contact points all over the place. Players that could be really good neglect the serve all the time. Asking Querry how to serve is like asking the Bryan Bros how they play doubles. Sure they can give you some tips but in the end it requires a lot more than just a few tips.

Lately, I have been trying to get her to tilt more. My daughter comes a bit up too much during the backswing and so I would like her to have a little more tilt so that she can get more shoulder over shoulder.

Last night she told me she was trying to tilt a bit more and I noticed she was starting to time her knee bend better. It is all so connected and the body does adapt on its own. It just needs really simple instructions and then some time to figure it out. Unfortunately, what I seem to see a lot is a couple of quick tips and then a player thrown out to the wolves. They can hit groundstrokes nicely but the serve is atrocious and eventually it holds them back. Sometimes they have decent serves but they are quite limited. For example, some girls try to hit hard flat serves to get quick points. Then when someone returns that serve they are not sure what to do.

So, yes, more than 6 years working with my daughter on her serve at least once or twice a week. At 14 she now has a pretty nice serve but our work is not done. She still has some body parts that can be coordinated better as she grows older. It won't happen on its own. She still needs guidance.

BTW, the same happens in the foreign language market. No one would sell software if they stated "learn a new language in 10 years."

[Error]

We worked on her serve pretty much every day for many years. Bad coaching when she began really made it difficult. I took over her coaching after 2 years.. I'm certain she has practiced over 50,000 serves. That's based on how many balls we had in the hopper and how many years shes practiced and that's a conservative estimate.. She is 21 now and her serve was a liability for the first 5 years of playing. It was only in this last year that things changed. Her serve is a huge asset now and its because she stuck with it. Its like anything. It took me a year of playing one classical piece on guitar to get it to where I'm confident playing it.. and I practiced pretty much every day. Everyone underestimates how long it takes to get really good at something. I do it to. You need two things to get good as anything, you need a clear understanding of the fundamentals ( almost impossible to find on you tube) and a crazy amount of practice.

[don_budge]

We worked on her serve pretty much every day for many years. Bad coaching when she began really made it difficult. I took over her coaching after 2 years.. I'm certain she has practiced over 50,000 serves. That's based on how many balls we had in the hopper and how many years shes practiced and that's a conservative estimate.. She is 21 now and her serve was a liability for the first 5 years of playing. It was only in this last year that things changed. Her serve is a huge asset now and its because she stuck with it. Its like anything. It took me a year of playing one classical piece on guitar to get it to where I'm confident playing it.. and I practiced pretty much every day. Everyone underestimates how long it takes to get really good at something. I do it to. You need two things to get good as anything, you need a clear understanding of the fundamentals ( almost impossible to find on you tube) and a crazy amount of practice.

The Five Fundamentals of Serving...Ben Hogan

1. Grip and Set-up Position
2. The Backswing
3. The Transition
4. The Forward Swing
5. The Follow Through

Love the emphasis on fundamentals. Lay the foundation for the student to build upon. Practice. Practice playing. Play.

[arturohernandez]

Lots of practice is the way. Of course, for some it requires more practice than others. Toni is famous for telling Rafa that Federer was more talented than him. Not better but there are things that Federer can do that Rafa cannot do.

Rafa himself needs the reps to feel confident. I am not saying Fed did not practice. He did and does practice. But it is clear that an hour of practice for him yields a lot more than it does for the rest of humanity.

Back to fundamentals. It is very interesting to see how many people take years of private lessons and yet have basic flaws in their strokes. I know that we are not all equal. But I feel like anyone in private lessons for a long time should be able to hit a simple fundamentally sound shot.

BTW, I like the 1,2,3,4,5. It cannot be that simple, can it?

[Error]

Lots of practice is the way. Of course, for some it requires more practice than others. Toni is famous for telling Rafa that Federer was more talented than him. Not better but there are things that Federer can do that Rafa cannot do.

That's just motivation.. Federer and Nadal are equally amazing and hard working.

Rafa himself needs the reps to feel confident

.Well I hope so. Doesn't everyone practice to feel confident?

.I am not saying Fed did not practice. He did and does practice. But it is clear that an hour of practice for him yields a lot more than it does for the rest of humanity.

That's not clear at all. There is no way to qualify a statement like that. I think it was Uncle Tony who said Federer practices more than anyone. It was Pete Sampras who said years of hard work look a lot like talent to some people.

Back to fundamentals. It is very interesting to see how many people take years of private lessons and yet have basic flaws in their strokes. I know that we are not all equal. But I feel like anyone in private lessons for a long time should be able to hit a simple fundamentally sound shot.

There are a lot of variables. The quality of the instruction is paramount as is the motivation and work ethic of the student. Unfortunately most teaching pros are terrible at their job.

[don_budge]

BTW, I like the 1,2,3,4,5. It cannot be that simple, can it?

Like Ben Hogan and the golf swing...a fellow Texan I might add...I don't think it is that complicated. He believed that any reasonably coordinated individual was capable of learning a sound, powerful and repetitive motion. One of the most...if not the most...read books in golf is Ben Hogan's "Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf". It sort of corresponds with Bill Tilden's "How to Play Better Tennis: A Complete Guide to Technique and Tactics". But Hogan's book is devoted almost exclusively to the technique universe whereas Tilden also covers the how to play the game aspect. Hogan's book should actually be a must reading for tennis professionals as his attention to detail in technique at that point in the history of golf was second to none. I sort of made a play on this when I attached Hogan's name to the "five fundamentals of serving".

But I believe that one must take the fundamentals in a progressive manner and never forgetting in the process to always tinker with the preceding lessons...or fundamentals...base on the findings of the current progression being worked on.

In order to make a sound and repetitive backswing the player must be set-up in a "correct" position to begin with so no compensating moves have to be made because of flaws in the set up or grip. The same sort of progressive reasoning is present in the entirety of the process. Always tinkering. It's not perfect until all friction is removed from the motion. You must think in terms of friction. Any obvious deviations in the motion are bound to cause a problem at some point in the player's play. Think Grigor Dimitrov and his service motion. Stefanos Tsitsipas is another example. Two great players that have perhaps not fulfilled their potential due to service motions that are less than perfect. Like Hogan...I don't see any reason why they cannot be. The same may be true of your daughter and it just so happens that she is the perfect age to see it as so. Perhaps you might post a video so we might take a look.

It isn't simple or anybody could do it. But on the other hand...if the approach in learning and coaching is healthy then anything is possible.