14 year old Girl...One handed backhand

[doctorhl]

Hockeyscout, your wisdom from five decades of working with young athletes is really showing! Jimmy Arias and Tracy Austin come to mind as two tennis players who had high expectations put on them too early. Your approach to youth development, I think, also reduces the career injury rate among other things.

[hockeyscout]

Continuing the discussion:

My daughter decided she wanted to switch from a two handed to a one handed topspin backhand at the age of 11. My son who is six years older did the same around the age of 12. I hit with a one handed backhand.

At some point, the two hander felt unnatural to her. Coaches complained for years to me about her one hander. My son even said it was a mistake. There is a reason that very few women hit one handers these days. She has yet to play another girl who hits with a one handed backhand. ZERO. The thinking is that girls need that other hand in order to hit a good backhand.

We have no skin in the game. A college scholarship would be great but is not our goal. We have the luxury of her playing with one hand. I have watched her backhand let her down at times. Players would just key in on the shot. But she kept working at it and it has gotten better. At 15 she is able to stay in rallies and vary the spin to that troubles other players. While girls with two handers will show some improvement in their backhands, my daughter's one hander is likely to keep improving even more.

I think natural experiments are important for tennis. I am waiting for some player to decide to serve and volley just for the heck of it. I have asked my daughter to do it sometimes when she gets bored of serving and playing points. Maybe I will ask her to do it more. When was the last time we saw a woman with a one handed backhand serve and volley?

Mauresmo? Navratilova?

19 year old Mike Tyson was heavyweight champ of the world and Holyfield/Lewis were about the same age and I don't think they even had a pro fight yet. From 25/40 when it mattered they were better fighters - Mike was an early developer but they were better fighters when it mattered, Every pre-schooler and high school athlete develops at a different rate. But, when they get to 25 to 40 that is prime time. Players today develop a lot later - the only real concern you have for the next 6/8 years of her development is (a) does she want to play and (b) is she getting better every three months and (c) are you as a parent bringing a lot of variability to her program - variability leads to bigger and better things in anything. To many Junior's beat themselves up - compare themselves to others - and, that stalls development. Every girl in the USA is comparing herself to 16 year old Coco Gauff - well, Coco is an early developer and you have to ask yourself how much upside is there with her game? Perhaps someone out their is better and they will pass her at 21 or 22. That's the nature of this developmental beast. It's why I hate 16 years olds in pro's ... put a bit too much performance pressure on athletes that don't need it. You are on the right track with just playing, experimentng ETC - great she is learning the one handed backhand - she may use it - she may not - if she doesn't it will lead to a lot of good things with her two hander and help that stroke.

[hockeyscout]

Super key points in this comment. The underpin is the lynchpin. This is pure Roger Federer. He's plays super clever sort of setting his opponent up for the coup de gras. There is a section of the court where the two handed backhand is vulnerable. Also the ability to float the ball near the baseline is a great way to neutralise. Doubles is great training. Good for serving. Good for returning. Great for approaching and volleying. I reiterate...PRIVATE PERSONAL TRAINER!!! I have a sneaking suspicion that soon hockeyscout is going to unveil his daughter/student and the most impressive aspect is going to be the development of the athlete. The player that is able to get into position to make a good swing most often is the one that is going to prevail. Half of the battle in this aspect is shear physical conditioning. The other half is perhaps mental and tactical acumen. Anticipation. Quickness cannot be overestimated.

Hey DonBudge = hope all is good with your in Sweden - this pandemic - it looks like nothing is getting better. Strange times. Predictable before an election. I am sure everything will magically return to normal when all is over, and the powers that be have sorted it all out.

She is 6'5 now - keeps growing - but, she is an eighth grader pre-schooler so don''t expect her to be unveiled for a number of years - I am in absolutely no rush like the rest of the herd. Everyone is in some rush. Great talent is built through years of anonymous toil. Expectations kill you in this line of work - and, I have come to learn after five decades of working with some of the best youth athletes in the world its best for their development to keep them at home as long as you can and over-ripen them for what's ahead. Sports is a business, and you don't want them injured/losing passion because they lack maturity mentally/physically. Pro tennis is a grind - and, everyones going in 100 chaotic ways and its everyman for himself. I hate the WTA's policy of 15/16/17/18 year old's in pro tennis - they have no business being there under any circumstances - and it puts a lot of pressure on kids they don't need. We don't do it in the NHL/NFL/NBA/MMA - why tennis? Jordan/Gretzky/Lemieux/Lebron/Kobe/Mike Tyson/Pippen and all the best turned out just fine entering when they were of age. It is like racing Holy Bull or Hennessy at 2 (I am a horse-racing fan). Crazy. I have a pretty controlled environment - she plays men/men/men and I'm monitoring the hell out of the rep counts and taking a lot of recovery rest between points. We're doing a lot of variability with her, not putting un-necessary travel miles on her at a young age, she sleeps in her bed every night. Can't say the same for her peers - they are all over the place, not sure their school is great, I think its to many matches/to many events/to much money spent when they can be at home getting their whipped by a 35 year old man and really developing. But, each to his own. Maybe I am right - maybe I am wrong - time shows all in any field. But, I think when/if she is competing well against top 1500 ranked men players then tennis will be an on many on the table options for her. No plans - no goals - no ambitions - no big drive for trophies - just focusing on the next set of 3 reps.

[don_budge]

This anecdote may not be relevant if your daughter is headed for pro level, but certainly relevant for collegiate level. I know of a female collegiate one handed backhander( in spite of pro instructors’ wishes) who was taught by her dad to learn to make use of the advantage of the one hander to more easily incorporate the slice and dropshot. At collegiate DII level, she offset any potential power decrease she might have experienced in deciding to go one handed, by frustrating opponents who were sitting on their heels and unable to read or reach her disguised backhand dropshots. Her low slice worked well on some tall, slow or big loop players. This strength fit in with her ability to move in to net play. Even when her approaches and first volleys weren’t that good, opponents were wrong footed and she got away with stretch volleys and drop volleys( after ruling out potential lobs). Doubles play growing up as a one handed taught her how to have soft hands,use angles, and anticipate and close the net in singles.

Super key points in this comment. The underpin is the lynchpin. This is pure Roger Federer. He's plays super clever sort of setting his opponent up for the coup de gras. There is a section of the court where the two handed backhand is vulnerable. Also the ability to float the ball near the baseline is a great way to neutralise. Doubles is great training. Good for serving. Good for returning. Great for approaching and volleying. I reiterate...PRIVATE PERSONAL TRAINER!!! I have a sneaking suspicion that soon hockeyscout is going to unveil his daughter/student and the most impressive aspect is going to be the development of the athlete. The player that is able to get into position to make a good swing most often is the one that is going to prevail. Half of the battle in this aspect is shear physical conditioning. The other half is perhaps mental and tactical acumen. Anticipation. Quickness cannot be overestimated.

[doctorhl]

This anecdote may not be relevant if your daughter is headed for pro level, but certainly relevant for collegiate level. I know of a female collegiate one handed backhander( in spite of pro instructors’ wishes) who was taught by her dad to learn to make use of the advantage of the one hander to more easily incorporate the slice and dropshot. At collegiate DII level, she offset any potential power decrease she might have experienced in deciding to go one handed, by frustrating opponents who were sitting on their heels and unable to read or reach her disguised backhand dropshots. Her low slice worked well on some tall, slow or big loop players. This strength fit in with her ability to move in to net play. Even when her approaches and first volleys weren’t that good, opponents were wrong footed and she got away with stretch volleys and drop volleys( after ruling out potential lobs). Doubles play growing up as a one handed taught her how to have soft hands,use angles, and anticipate and close the net in singles.

[arturohernandez]

Continuing the discussion:

My daughter decided she wanted to switch from a two handed to a one handed topspin backhand at the age of 11. My son who is six years older did the same around the age of 12. I hit with a one handed backhand.

At some point, the two hander felt unnatural to her. Coaches complained for years to me about her one hander. My son even said it was a mistake. There is a reason that very few women hit one handers these days. She has yet to play another girl who hits with a one handed backhand. ZERO. The thinking is that girls need that other hand in order to hit a good backhand.

We have no skin in the game. A college scholarship would be great but is not our goal. We have the luxury of her playing with one hand. I have watched her backhand let her down at times. Players would just key in on the shot. But she kept working at it and it has gotten better. At 15 she is able to stay in rallies and vary the spin to that troubles other players. While girls with two handers will show some improvement in their backhands, my daughter's one hander is likely to keep improving even more.

I think natural experiments are important for tennis. I am waiting for some player to decide to serve and volley just for the heck of it. I have asked my daughter to do it sometimes when she gets bored of serving and playing points. Maybe I will ask her to do it more. When was the last time we saw a woman with a one handed backhand serve and volley?

Mauresmo? Navratilova?

[doctorhl]

I thought a lot about crossover movements in sports for my sports skill analysis class. Tournament badminton footwork taught me how to move back quickly to cover an offensive( not defensive lob) in tennis doubles. Tournament squash taught me how to grip change on a very wide reach on a forehand and snap a down the line squash shot since there was no time for a windup. However, crossover can work against you if you select the wrong ones! I wonder what other sports John McEnroe was exposed to. He had some very effective tennis feet and hand movements that I just don’t think he learned from tennis exclusively.

[arturohernandez]

Agree on Sampras ability. He could anticipate volley direction without equal. I also agree on “body read”. There were some research studies years ago where coaches were shown a number of videos in different parts of the opponent’s body were masked on the video just before contact on a groundstroke and serves. They were asked to predict ball direction. The advanced coaches looked at different body parts( usually shoulders and hips)than the beginning coaches. I played a lot of basketball and was good defensively. But for some reason I could not transition it to the tennis court for anticipating volleys. I had no problem with groundstrokes or service returns. Now that you mention it, I think my difficulty was the run forward, then split and anticipate direction. Most likely, experience in forward running to split and change of direction in soccer would have helped. In basketball, the offense was always coming to me for split and direction change, not me running toward them. You just set off a flashback in my mind to little league baseball and my inability to get the jump on fly ball direction in the outfield. I had a quick first step, but I just had no clue on focusing on batter body clues!! It would be interesting to know pro tennis players’ prior soccer( excuse me - - - football) experience.

I think I also used to field a lot of ground balls and fly balls in baseball. Maybe you just needed more reps in order to get the timing right so that you could learn to split and move forward or back. I never thought of the different directions of movement and sports. But I agree that soccer would give you better movement in all directions compared to other sports. Baseball might too.

Everyone wonders why Americans are not better at tennis these days. I know that there are a lot of competing sports that take good athletes in other directions.

Maybe soccer is the answer. Oh and that is how I learned it in English. These days I am hearing people around here call it futbol because of the heavy Latin influence in the US and way to not confuse it with the other football I grew up that uses the feet a few times a game.

[doctorhl]

Agree on Sampras ability. He could anticipate volley direction without equal. I also agree on “body read”. There were some research studies years ago where coaches were shown a number of videos in different parts of the opponent’s body were masked on the video just before contact on a groundstroke and serves. They were asked to predict ball direction. The advanced coaches looked at different body parts( usually shoulders and hips)than the beginning coaches. I played a lot of basketball and was good defensively. But for some reason I could not transition it to the tennis court for anticipating volleys. I had no problem with groundstrokes or service returns. Now that you mention it, I think my difficulty was the run forward, then split and anticipate direction. Most likely, experience in forward running to split and change of direction in soccer would have helped. In basketball, the offense was always coming to me for split and direction change, not me running toward them. You just set off a flashback in my mind to little league baseball and my inability to get the jump on fly ball direction in the outfield. I had a quick first step, but I just had no clue on focusing on batter body clues!! It would be interesting to know pro tennis players’ prior soccer( excuse me - - - football) experience.

[arturohernandez]

Thanks, no apology necessary. As I said I never took at as ill intent.

I also think cross-training would have helped you. I think about playing sports informally. The split step would be necessary for trying to guard basketball players as they move or soccer players changing directions. The same for fielding balls. You are almost obligated to jump at the right time and to adjust. With enough variety and reps in these different sports we eventually adapt to tennis.

We also learn to read the body rather than just the racket. So a former basketball or soccer player is reacting before the ball is hit because in basketball, soccer and even in baseball the ball is connected to the body. So we read the body and not the racket.

I am kind of rambling here but I think it fits in with what you are saying. But I am thinking that we need to read the body and not the racket or the hit. If we split with our opponent's body then we would split step before the ball is hit.

I also remember reading something on serving and volleying and how the footwork patterns were different relative to the baseline. They seem to take longer to develop. So in today's fast paced world it is not taught the way it was before.

Sampras in particular noted how different it was. And I cannot keep but thinking how Sampras seemed to anticipate volleys so well and that today people get passed left and right. I know he did not play with the same string technology.

Federer is close but not nearly as good as Sampras was. It must have been playing against an octopus who had all his tentacles over the entire court.

[doctorhl]

Apologies Arturo! Thanks for the response. I remember serving and then moving in toward the net to volley. I went into a split step( with weight on my heels) about the time the opponent struck the ball. It was too late to rise up to deweight. I had to train myself to split step earlier so that I could rise up at the beginning of the opponent’s forward swing. By the time my brain activated my rise up, the ball had been contacted and I was deweighted enough to follow ball direction and go to my left or right. I spent years thinking I was too slow to get off my heels when the problem was a timing of the rise. Proper drills would have most likely corrected this for me without having to go through all of that self video analysis.

[arturohernandez]

Thanks Art. The explanation in Mayotte’s section on split step timing was what I was looking for. I think many juniors rise up on their toes too late by waiting for opponent ball contact. Poor timing of rising on toes really shows up on service returns and cutting off volleys st net in doubles. Still looking for slow motion ground level video that captures both players without one player or the net obstructing the view.

I can see how rising up late would basically mean that one is not able to change directions at the right time. I know that some pros do a lot of hand fed or close in feeding with a racket tap to make the players respond more quickly. It would seem to me that volleying at the net and making the player adjust quickly would also help. When the pro volleys and the player has to hit successive groundstrokes, there is very little time to adjust. So the adjustments have to come quickly. My guess is that Lewit, Mayotte and other coaches probably work on quick reactions to get the feet moving. But that is my guess.

Just one minor note, the nickname Art is like nails on a chalkboard for me. I realize you had no ill intent but just figured I would let you know the effect.

[doctorhl]

Great points. Tim Mayotte has this article on the split step. I am not sure if you saw it but he goes into detailed analysis of what the split step is and is not. He has some videos of Federer and Djokovic which are very nice.

Not sure if you have seen this so I am pasting the link in case you haven't.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/famouscoach/tim_mayotte/the_split_step_ready_position/

Lewit also talks a lot about using a kind of hop like the Spanish do. This has the effect of helping on slippery surfaces such as clay but it also creates a rhythm that I think eventually leads a player to naturally hop before the shot. My guess is that if a player hops as a junior then they will start to naturally learn to time the split optimally.

If you look at the link below in the Spanish drilling section you can see the rhythmic approach that I think in principle helps with split steps.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_performance/chris_lewit/two_coaches_training_styles/

Thanks for the feedback and thoughts.

Arturo

Thanks Art. The explanation in Mayotte’s section on split step timing was what I was looking for. I think many juniors rise up on their toes too late by waiting for opponent ball contact. Poor timing of rising on toes really shows up on service returns and cutting off volleys st net in doubles. Still looking for slow motion ground level video that captures both players without one player or the net obstructing the view.

[doctorhl]

While I got your attention: when I changed from old school one handed backhanded slice to a Federer knife slice, I noticed that I started to get the ball to “skid” and stay low, making it much more effective. But I haven’t found any slow motion video that captures that “skid”. It’s not easy to film. Have you noticed this “skid” and have you seen it captured on film anywhere?

[doctorhl]

Thanks Art, I hadn’t seen that and definitely will check it out. Split step was probably the wrong word. I was referring to “when” players rose on their toes to deweight as opponent is about to make contact. I forgot that youtube does not have frame advance and you can only see this with single frame advance and shooting at least 200 fps to catch it.