How High Can You Go? Serve toss:

[stotty]

I must admit I remember watching Peter Flemming, and I think a guy called Brian Teacher, at Wimbledon and thinking how flat they seemed to serve. But I am relying on my memory from a long time ago, and we all know how unreliable memories can be. I guess some players can serve flatter than others for whatever reason. I guess it comes down to how low the RPM'S have to be before we term a serve flat.

[tennisdad]

This is about as horizontal (as opposed to vertical) as I have ever seen. He just turned 13 yrs old and we were trying to get a sharp angle and dropping its short in Ad court box, so this was more experimental..

[John Yandell]

Stotty,
Agreed. "Flat" is a relative term.

[J011yroger]

My $0.02: When I say flat, slice, kick etc. I am taking about trajectory, not the actual amount of spin on the ball. If it goes fast and more or less straight through the air and after the bounce it's a flat serve.

Andy Roddick's "flat" 138mph serve is going to have more RPM on it than a 3.5 player's "topspin" second serve.

J

[John Yandell]

Jolly,
Yep.

[don_budge]

Stotty,
Agreed. "Flat" is a relative term.

My $0.02: When I say flat, slice, kick etc. I am taking about trajectory, not the actual amount of spin on the ball. If it goes fast and more or less straight through the air and after the bounce it's a flat serve.

Andy Roddick's "flat" 138mph serve is going to have more RPM on it than a 3.5 player's "topspin" second serve.

J

Excellent clarification. Per Tildin...there is no such thing as a flat ball. But in terms of trajectory there is less wiggle room to quibble.

[don_budge]

These are interesting photos and interesting data. What about the contact point inside the baseline?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_odRZD-edU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYs0LJgcvOM

Interesting thread and interesting comments long after the original context meandered out of the discussion. So much for keeping threads on course. But two really brilliant video studies of the John McEnroe serve. Pound for pound...or rather inch for inch, one of the best serves ever in the game.

There has been a fundamental breakdown in serving and that breakdown is due to the absence of serve and volley. McEnroe's motion is designed to propel him to the net which is what virtually every serve used to designed to do. Nowadays it is only blast and retreat behind the baseline.

To hit a ball with less spin doesn't it make sense to toss the ball more into the court to expose the back of the ball and allow the server to stay behind the ball at contact? Brilliant videos...Old Boy.

[stroke]

at least we don't have the ol thread killer around anymore