Nadal's Arm Rotation

[jimlosaltos]

I included a version of this photo in the Tour Portrait because I don't recall discussion of how much long-axis/ arm rotation Nadal uses in his serve. Rafa's palm is literally facing straight up here. The only player I've seen get more rotation is John Isner. I imagine it takes work to be that flexibile when one is that buff
https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...elite_serving/

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[stroke]

I have always thought Nadal gets a very high level of action on his slice serve, which he tends to use on both his first and second serves. His shoulder rotation must be a big contributing factor. I remember Agassi, one of the best returners ever obviously, commented one time on Nadal's serve being better than it appears because of all that spin/action on it.

[PearlieMortensen]

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[doctorhl]

I have always thought Nadal gets a very high level of action on his slice serve, which he tends to use on both his first and second serves. His shoulder rotation must be a big contributing factor. I remember Agassi, one of the best returners ever obviously, commented one time on Nadal's serve being better than it appears because of all that spin/action on it.

How does one get enough speed on the serve with such an extreme grip like Nadal’s?

[jimlosaltos]

How does one get enough speed on the serve with such an extreme grip like Nadal’s?

I'm not sure Rafa's service grip is that unusual now. As I vaguely remember, he started out with a backhand grip, then went to a more conventional one as he tried for more velocity.

Quick search for a couple of my photos.

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And from 2015

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[stroke]

Great pic of his service grip. I would say he has a very strong continental with his heel pad on bevel 1, very similar to Fed. Tsitsipas to me is not close to this grip. I remember when he talked about altering his grip to get more mph's, but I personally did not see much, if any change.

[stotty]

I don't understand why players like Murray and Tsitsipas have those slightly weaker grips. It doesn't gain them power as full ISR (the arm, hand, racket rotation) won't always fully happen...so in theory they are losing power and the serve can become a 'slap', especially in the case of Murray.

I think Nadal seems to have a slightly stronger grip than Roger, although it may just seem that way as he uses a very small handle size. Tough to see exactly from Jim's photos.

Is it the angle of Jim's photo or is Rafa striking the ball slightly behind his head? Shouldn't the contact point align somewhat with the bridge of the player's nose, or fairly close to it?

[jimlosaltos]

I don't understand why players like Murray and Tsitsipas have those slightly weaker grips. It doesn't gain them power as full ISR (the arm, hand, racket rotation) won't always fully happen...so in theory they are losing power and the serve can become a 'slap', especially in the case of Murray.

I think Nadal seems to have a slightly stronger grip than Roger, although it may just seem that way as he uses a very small handle size. Tough to see exactly from Jim's photos.

Is it the angle of Jim's photo or is Rafa striking the ball slightly behind his head? Shouldn't the contact point align somewhat with the bridge of the player's nose, or fairly close to it?

Good eye. Yes, and Rafa is one of many pro players that is not looking at the ball at impact. First time I remember seeing that was with Pat Rafter. With his old, Aussie charge-the-net at all costs service motion, the ball was literally too far behind his head both along the service line and toward the baseline for him to see it.