Height in Pro Tennis

[John Yandell]

Let's discuss Dr Brian Gordon's latest article, "Height in Pro Tennis"

[doctorhl]

A great and informative article by BG. The bigger takeaway for me is 60 minutes editing. I understand television pressure on a profile piece, but it irritates me that networks deprive the public of so much information that their algorithms screen out because of perceived low ratings, even within a segment. I also suspect that BG’s correct assumption that some subsets of elite performance are genetically determined might trigger red flag algorithms for “woke” inclined producers.

[BrianGordon]

Interesting - when I put something out for public consumption I spend a lot of intellectual capital honestly assessing any potential flaws in my logic - and I have no problem being controversial if I can defend my position. But... the latter never even entered my mind - I'm getting old doctorhi.

[don_budge]

I'm getting old doctorhi.

I don't think you are getting "old"...I think you are getting "experienced".

[jeremy93]

Great article Brian. It is not clear to me why shorter players seem to have an advantage on return of serve. Is it because they tend to move their shorter limbs faster then tall players? Thank you.

[BrianGordon]

Hi Jeremy93 - It has been my experience that returning favors quickness and agility in movement and preparation. Less and lower mass of the body and segments should, in theory, be useful in this regard. While this seems to support the anecdotal trend (and certainly Diego) it is highly individual and not determinative.

While I train my players extensively in both serve and return, I must admit that for those of perceived (I work with developmental kids) small stature I put relatively more emphasis on return. I hope that doesn't offend anyone, but I believe it could be a factor as I said in the article and in the interview.

[stotty]

Brian

It's a great article and good to see Diego used as the model. It also backs up my theory that it's mostly about the player as the player brings a lot to the table the coach has zero control of.

Diego is a great returner, as were David Ferrer and Connors who were also under 6 foot.

With my performance players we work a lot of returning. Hardly a lesson goes by without at least some returning as I consider it hugely important. I wonder what aspects Brian and other coaches on the forum work on when teaching the return of serve. What locations do you teach them to hit? Do you teach returning from standard, offensive and deeper positions? What generalised, technical aspects do you work on that you work on with all your players?

I am always curious how others coach their players to return.

[BrianGordon]

Hi Stotty -

Good question and interested to hear what others do also but... you left out Andre. This is a whole other discussion but for me (fall back options addressed also) in a nutshell:

Position: Standard (with offensive mindset) based on server.

Movement: Forward step into a laterally skewed jab split then step out.

Hitting Lower Body: Linearly oriented jump through.

Hitting Upper Body - "3/4" shortened adaptation to my base ground stroke model.

Shot Direction: Wardlaw Directionals with inside/out and wide ball to deep middle options.

[stotty]

Hi Stotty -

Good question and interested to hear what others do also but... you left out Andre. This is a whole other discussion but for me (fall back options addressed also) in a nutshell:

Position: Standard (with offensive mindset) based on server.

Movement: Forward step into a laterally skewed jab split then step out.

Hitting Lower Body: Linearly oriented jump through.

Hitting Upper Body - "3/4" shortened adaptation to my base ground stroke model.

Shot Direction: Wardlaw Directionals with inside/out and wide ball to deep middle options.

Thanks, that's a useful reply.

I teach positioning relative to the quality of serve being received but there is nothing wrong with standing deep and taking a longer look at a serve if it makes returning easier and gets 'em back. I also encourage to returner to take up subtely different positions (not gamesmanship stuff) occasionally just to alter the server's depth of field.

I saw a stat taken of Novak's returning through the course of Wimbledon one year which revealed 68% of his returns landed deep down the middle third, erring slight towards the backhand. So even at Wimbledon he is looking to neutralise more than attack. I always think he could go for more at times.

My return was lousy...worst part of my game.

[doctorhl]

Interesting - when I put something out for public consumption I spend a lot of intellectual capital honestly assessing any potential flaws in my logic - and I have no problem being controversial if I can defend my position. But... the latter never even entered my mind - I'm getting old doctorhi.

The Australian tennis community back in the day certainly didnt have problems with paying attention to talent profiling(kinanthropometric assessment, morphological optimasation, etc.) along with othe parts of applied anatomy and biomechanics in sport. Researchers like T.R. Ackland, B. Abernathy, B. Elliott, J. Bloomfield, G.R. Tomkinson come to mind. Trivia question--Can anyone on this board name U.S. tennis biomechanics researchers, whether basic or applied?

[John Yandell]

Uh Brian

[doctorhl]

Apologies for my rant, but I just feel like Brian Gordon and others don’t get their due sometimes. Thanks must also go out to John for providing a bridge to useful tennis applied research. I know he opened eyes as a trailblazer with the usefulness of ball speed/ spin ratios among other things.

[John Yandell]

Yep. Brian should be a highly paid consultant for USTA, PTA , PTR and the ATP. Too much info, credibility, experience, and coaching success. That threatens bureaucracies...

[BrianGordon]

Thanks guys!

[arturohernandez]

Yep. Brian should be a highly paid consultant for USTA, PTA , PTR and the ATP. Too much info, credibility, experience, and coaching success. That threatens bureaucracies...

Yes, similar to the fate that Tom Byer suffered in soccer. After helping Japan move from relegation to elite in soccer, US Soccer got rid of him after a very short stint. Part of the quibble was on measuring improvement in individuals. Byer had a more collectivist, generational view on improvement.

Lansdorp has a similar view on tennis and also very underappreciated.

If I could go back to grad school, I would find a way to work some time in as an apprentice to Brian during my training.