Indian Wells ATP 1000

[jimlosaltos]

The French used to say that about Henri LeCounte, a genius from the elbow down. Henri was way more charming and likeable though.

I have to remember that one: From the elbow down.

"More charming" than Kyrgios is sure setting the bar low <g>.

Had a vaguely similar discussion elsewhere: Bublik is the mini-me Kyrgios without the nasty. Here he is doing an imitation of me not knowing which end of the racket to use. Middle of actual match, losing to Ruud, I believe. {My composite from ATP vid}

Any experts here care to discuss Bublik's grip on this shot? Severe fly-swatter or a water dowsing stick or something.

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[stroke]

Hah. Best player in tennis -- from the neck down.

The French used to say that about Henri LeCounte, a genius from the elbow down. Henri was way more charming and likeable though.

[jimlosaltos]

I'll say just freakish raw ability. Except in the brain.

Hah. Best player in tennis -- from the neck down.

[John Yandell]

I'll say just freakish raw ability. Except in the brain.

[jimlosaltos]

How can Nick attack service return on the rise so well? 1.Ability to analyze amount of service spin and predict depth of serve in service box 2.Minimal footwork and leg strength/balance to travel required distance on forward step/close to catch ball on the rise 3.Timing and eye hand coordination to initiate swing 4. Compact and linear swing to help find racket sweet spot (as Jim said). 5. Willingness to guess a little on serve landing in left, middle or right side of service box at critical points Is that a shot for the “gifted” only that is not wise for mortals to copy???

All of the above?

I grabbed some stats. Ah, found it Rublev's average second serve speed yesterday vs Nick was 143.8 kph (89 MPH) typical for him , while for 2022 he won 52.81% of second serve points {which is 2 pts better than Kyrgios} vs only 21% vs Nick in Miami.

Look at Nick's return stats here. It's not just occasionally being aggressive - Nick's "Average" return position was 2.12 meters inside the baseline. and his "average" return speed was 85 MPH. Also, Nick's ave backhand return speed in the match was109.4 kph vs 93.2 kph ave for the year (small samples) forehand return speed is 94.5 kph but was 109.4 kph today.

So, Nick has standing half way in, taking a 90 mph serve jumping to 5 feet high at impact, and hitting out on it. Repeatedly.

So, can "mere mortals" do this? Not this one <g>.

From ATP/ Infosys

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[doctorhl]

His aggressiveness on service returns is fascinating.

I've uploaded a phone pic by Craig O’Shannessy of a return winner by Nick vs Rublev in Miami. Andrey only won 21% of second serve points. It's one thing to step in on a second serve, another to club it. Nick favors his backhand to attack, presumably because it has such a short take back and linear swing.

We saw Nick try this 5 times vs Rafa in their Indian Wells quarter. Every time was on the deuce court, where Nick was threatening Rafa's swing serve. Rafa (much like Fed) seems to have a preternatural ability to see what returners are doing while he's serving, so (as I remember it) he went for firsts-as-seconds each time, hitting 120 mph flat wide. The first four times, Nick could only stick out his arm and mishit the ball. Rafa double defaulted on a critical point for the fifth attempt. But Nick forced Rafa to go for his weakest serve - and take a big risk. Many have tried few have succeeded at that, as well.

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How can Nick attack service return on the rise so well? 1.Ability to analyze amount of service spin and predict depth of serve in service box 2.Minimal footwork and leg strength/balance to travel required distance on forward step/close to catch ball on the rise 3.Timing and eye hand coordination to initiate swing 4. Compact and linear swing to help find racket sweet spot (as Jim said). 5. Willingness to guess a little on serve landing in left, middle or right side of service box at critical points Is that a shot for the “gifted” only that is not wise for mortals to copy???

[jimlosaltos]

Nick color me impressed with his dispatching of the Goblin. He is still a tool extrodanaire.

Nick was about as impressive as it comes against a top notch in form player. In today's game of such small margains determining the winner, there was none of that going on here. It was just so impressive, Nick was simply better in all areas of the game.

Nick is the oddsmakers #5 favorite to win this tournament now, and he clearly has more game than the 4 ahead of him.

His aggressiveness on service returns is fascinating.

I've uploaded a phone pic by Craig O’Shannessy of a return winner by Nick vs Rublev in Miami. Andrey only won 21% of second serve points. It's one thing to step in on a second serve, another to club it. Nick favors his backhand to attack, presumably because it has such a short take back and linear swing.

We saw Nick try this 5 times vs Rafa in their Indian Wells quarter. Every time was on the deuce court, where Nick was threatening Rafa's swing serve. Rafa (much like Fed) seems to have a preternatural ability to see what returners are doing while he's serving, so (as I remember it) he went for firsts-as-seconds each time, hitting 120 mph flat wide. The first four times, Nick could only stick out his arm and mishit the ball. Rafa double defaulted on a critical point for the fifth attempt. But Nick forced Rafa to go for his weakest serve - and take a big risk. Many have tried few have succeeded at that, as well.

filedata/fetch?id=96954&d=1648311150&type=thumb

[stroke]

Nick color me impressed with his dispatching of the Goblin. He is still a tool extrodanaire.

Nick was about as impressive as it comes against a top notch in form player. In today's game of such small margains determining the winner, there was none of that going on here. It was just so impressive, Nick was simply better in all areas of the game.

Nick is the oddsmakers #5 favorite to win this tournament now, and he clearly has more game than the 4 ahead of him.

[jimlosaltos]

Just saw this clip. We were there but I did not see the actual throw until now. Can't believe Nick threw his racket half the court length right at the ball kid's head. Kyrgios was fined, but that doesn't seem enough. Seems even worse than Zverev pounding his racket on the umpire's chair. Nice he apologized. Better that he didn't have to apologize to the kid in a hospital bed.
https://twitter.com/villievang/statu...31788416630784


Starts at the top. Djokovic has been getting away with dangerously throwing and smashing rackets and balls for ages and it filters down to the field. Eventually, somebody is going to get seriously injured.

Kyrgios has been fined total of $25,000 for incidents in loss to Nadal $20,000 for unsportsmanlike conduct, which is the maximum for any single infraction, for post-match racket toss. $5,000 for audible obscenity

[jimlosaltos]

The commentators pointed out that during this tournament, Fritz had the highest mph's average on the forehand at 79 mph. They did not say where all stood rpm wise. His forehand looks exactly the same to me. Would be interesting to know if there really has been any change. He has a Sock like western forehand grip it looks to me, but he certainly does not have the violent racquet flip that Sock does.

Thanks for info. TV commentators always seem to leave me hanging since they stop just before asking the question I want answered <g>.

[stroke]

That would be interesting to know. During the spell I watched some of the match Fritz was outhitting Rublev in forehand to forehand exchanges...not easy that.

The commentators pointed out that during this tournament, Fritz had the highest mph's average on the forehand at 79 mph. They did not say where all stood rpm wise. His forehand looks exactly the same to me. Would be interesting to know if there really has been any change. He has a Sock like western forehand grip it looks to me, but he certainly does not have the violent racquet flip that Sock does.

[stotty]

Looks like Rafa loyalty to Larry did more harm than good in the end then. It was great for everyone he made a credible final of it, but at what cost, as he can have only have made the injury worse. He could miss the FO as a result.

[stotty]

Anybody here see or know how Fritz reportedly changed his forehand?

Fritz attributed his hot run on his "home" tournament to improving his forehand. He didn't get a new tip from a celebrity coach. Instead, he watched tape of his matches with his semifinal opponent Rublev when both were 15 yo. "We were really smacking forehands." Taking his forehand technique back 9 years to when he was 15 yo apparently did the trick. No word on what those changes were.

That would be interesting to know. During the spell I watched some of the match Fritz was outhitting Rublev in forehand to forehand exchanges...not easy that.

[jimlosaltos]

More on Rafa's injury from NYT
"But this is a new type of injury for Nadal, one that could recur and, according to the retired orthopedic surgeon Bill Mallon, could require longer than four to six weeks to heal. “You can’t put your rib in a cast,” Mallon said."

Rafa's never won RG without playing another clay event before it.

[jimlosaltos]

Anybody here see or know how Fritz reportedly changed his forehand?

Fritz attributed his hot run on his "home" tournament to improving his forehand. He didn't get a new tip from a celebrity coach. Instead, he watched tape of his matches with his semifinal opponent Rublev when both were 15 yo. "We were really smacking forehands." Taking his forehand technique back 9 years to when he was 15 yo apparently did the trick. No word on what those changes were.