Client with ball toss troubles

[bowt]

Hey Guys,

Super appreciate any thoughts / feedback on a client am I working with who really struggles with executing the ball toss on the serve.

Consistently her release point is low and she ends up 'flicking' the ball to try to get it into the right position.

Have recorded her toss in slow motion and its constantly the same - very low release points with wrist / arm movements.

Even though she has seen it and attempts to keep her arm straight and release later (around eye level) she cant do it.

I don't know the 'how' of how she can go about transforming her toss. Its worse in match situations / more pressure.

Any thoughts / ideas much appreciated.

Thanks
Richard

[John Yandell]

I would literally put her arm in some type of brace to keep it straight. Also speed (slower) of upward movement. Couple of other ideas coming in future articles from other writers!

[stotty]

bowt,

Here is a clip I did for you. You make a ring with the thumb and forefinger sit the ball on top of your hand. We call it the ice-cream cone. When tossing the ball, the student will have to move the arm smoothly and evenly so the ball doesn't fall off their hand, which will stop the wrist flicking. The weakness is you cannot drop the tossing arm to the thigh so easily, but nevertheless it will certainly help develop an even and less wristy tossing motion.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x89v8to (password: stotty)

The worry is if the student develops the yips over their ball toss. Sometimes the more they think about it and try and resolve it, the worse it gets. Coaching that fails to resolve the problem serves to make the problem worse because it merely reinforces the student's inability to get it right. In this scenario, once all coaching methods have been exhausted, it is better to take a more radical route and encourage the student to hit the ball anyway so long it is within a 6 inch globe of error. Sometimes giving the student a licence to do this rather than strive for perfection relaxes the situation somewhat and things gradually get better on their own. I never had a good forehand and tried endlessly to make it better without much success. In the end I settled for what I had and simply got on with it. Someone with the yips over their ball toss might be advised to do the same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yips

[bowt]

Thanks for the suggestions guys!

[jimlosaltos]

I can't suggest what you should do. But here is one thing to NOT do.
Do not show your student this video! 3 minutes of Sara Errani's ball toss going wrong <g>

https://youtu.be/azBwpZHFJBo

[doctorhl]

The "yips" is a fascinating mind/ body interaction. We have all seen the " steel elbow" occurence on serves and overheads. Perhaps John will feature it in a future article( unless I missed it earlier)!

[John Yandell]

Yeah don't really understand it...couple of our writers will have some tossing suggestions in the future...

[jimlosaltos]

Just FYI: Happens in every sport.

One of more famous is MLB second baseman Chuck Knoblauch was one of the best at his position, and for a time a great fielder. Then, he simply became unable to make the short throw to second base.

How bad were his throws? He once hit sportscaster Keith Olberman's mother in the head, while she was sitting in the stands, on a short throw to first. The condition is sometimes referred to as "Steve Sax Syndrome" for another one-time Yankee 2nd baseman.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Knoblauch

Another example is NBA's Wilt Chamberlain, although he's known as an extremely bad free throw shooter, that wasn't always true. In the game where Chamberlain set the scoring record at 100 points, he also set records for free throws, making 27 of 38 free throws, or 71%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain%27s_100-point_game

Golf magazines regularly have articles on "How to Cure Putting Yips". Among those are:

1) Breathe
2) "Phil's Rule" accelerate through a putt, instead of decelerating.
3) Practice putting with other clubs
4) Go 'unconscious"
5) Hypnosis therapy

Not sure how many of those apply here

A Player That Recovered from Yips

Tyler Matzek conquered the yips and became the MLB postseason’s most dominant reliever: “He’s all heart and courage”
Navy SEAL Jason Kuhn showed Atlanta Braves lefty the way back after he washed out with Colorado Rockies

https://www.denverpost.com/2021/10/26/tyler-matzek-atlanta-braves-conquers-yips/

“It’s got to be one of the greatest pitching performances there’s ever been in the postseason,” Freeman told reporters after the game. “That was unbelievable. If they score, they’re starting to feel good about themselves. The fact they didn’t, that was a huge deflator right there.”

~~~~~~~~~

“Jason changed my perspective on life, on everything,” Matzek said. “From the point that I started working with him, the goal of getting back to the big leagues became realistic.”

Adds Kuhn, “We connected. I knew exactly what he was feeling. I had the yips. It’s a very lonely and confusing and devastating place to be.”

Matzek and Kuhn talked extensively on the phone, and Matzek journeyed to Tennessee to train. Fixing the pitcher was both a mental and physical process. When Matzek was on the mound, Kuhn would sometimes blare an airhorn in an attempt to rattle Matzek and break his concentration. Little by little, Matzek regained his confidence.

“Tyler had tried everything else, and I said to him, ‘It’s not working, is it?’ He said no. I told him, “I know how to beat this and it’s a step-by-step process.

“I don’t believe you just think they yips away, you have to train it away.”

There was a lot to “train away.”

[DavidLHagler]

Put two balls in her hand and have her toss the one closest to the fingertips. Tell her to point her hand where she wants the ball to go. Also Wilt Chamberlain was 28 of 32 from the free-throw line the night he scored 100 points. In those days there were no 3-point field goals so he needed to make an even number of free throws to score 100 points

[jimlosaltos]

Put two balls in her hand and have her toss the one closest to the fingertips. Tell her to point her hand where she wants the ball to go. Also Wilt Chamberlain was 28 of 32 from the free-throw line the night he scored 100 points. In those days there were no 3-point field goals so he needed to make an even number of free throws to score 100 points

Thanks for the correction. I found the 27/32 number in one article, but Wikipedia agrees with you <g>.

"Chamberlain made 36 of 63 field-goals and 28 of 32 free throws"

As I vaguely recall from the limited B&W video of the era, Wilt although a 7 foot 1 in center had an amazing turn-around fall away jump shot off the top of the glass. He might have made shots from 3 point distance. Unfortunately, I don't believe there is video of that game, as is the case for a lot of early NBA games.

Oh, thanks for the tip of tossing. Hadn't heard that one previously.

[bowt]

bowt,

Here is a clip I did for you. You make a ring with the thumb and forefinger sit the ball on top of your hand. We call it the ice-cream cone. When tossing the ball, the student will have to move the arm smoothly and evenly so the ball doesn't fall off their hand, which will stop the wrist flicking. The weakness is you cannot drop the tossing arm to the thigh so easily, but nevertheless it will certainly help develop an even and less wristy tossing motion.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x89v8to (password: stotty)

The worry is if the student develops the yips over their ball toss. Sometimes the more they think about it and try and resolve it, the worse it gets. Coaching that fails to resolve the problem serves to make the problem worse because it merely reinforces the student's inability to get it right. In this scenario, once all coaching methods have been exhausted, it is better to take a more radical route and encourage the student to hit the ball anyway so long it is within a 6 inch globe of error. Sometimes giving the student a licence to do this rather than strive for perfection relaxes the situation somewhat and things gradually get better on their own. I never had a good forehand and tried endlessly to make it better without much success. In the end I settled for what I had and simply got on with it. Someone with the yips over their ball toss might be advised to do the same.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yips

This worked unbelievable I cant thank you enough !!