Stroke analysis - Adelina 11 years old

[don_budge]

You Like the Forehand? I Love the Serve...minus the Federesque nuance

Thank you all so much for the support! From my point of view, she is 100% a product of Tennisplayer.net. The forehand is the shot I’m most proud of—especially the straight-arm forehand, which is the closest I could teach her based on my understanding of Dr. Gordon’s teachings.
Thank you, Don_Budge. One more thing: she just turned 14 in October, and we’re incredibly lucky to have a fantastic coach—someone who also coaches the current No. 1 ITF junior in the world. I really wish more parents knew about this site and how unbelievable it truly is.

One more thing? Well that's big. I was miscalculating two years of potential maturity and development. When you mentioned she was a 16 and under champion, I projected her at sixteen and short for her age. Fourteen is a big difference from sixteen. In a sense it only makes me double down on my input. And it changes all of my projections on her trajectory.

That is excellent news, florin. I believe that the two years now of POTENTIAL unrealized gives her an excellent opportunity to make serious headway in her development as a physical specimen. Two more years to development of her quickness, endurance and agility (balance). Very interesting. Not to mention two years to concentrate on really turning the screws on a forehand that maintains pressure on her opponent. If she is winning in tournaments playing up over her age group, this is another point I emphasized in being competitive. She already has a leg up. Another interesting point.

I really like that I overshot her age by two years. Setting goals to accomplish the things I mention will seriously change her trajectory. You like the forehand? Nothing wrong with that. You have to like the forehand. She has to have great confidence in that stroke as a weapon. I like the serve and I like it even more now that I find out she is fourteen. Obviously a Federer admirer...the motion is even a reasonable facsimile at this point. The little Federesque nuance in initiation of the backswing is telltale. While the serve is a nice motion...another two years of attention to detail would be a deal breaker. Let me emphasize here...very few motions on the "ladies" tour have the kind of organization that your daughters motion exhibits. Most look ridiculously chaotic and home made. Your daughters motion, thanks to the Federer blueprint, already has signs of "poise" and fluidity.

The serve must be thought of at great lengths philosophically and tactically. I am an avid golfer and I see great similarities between the service motion and the golf swing. The same type of letters that enable the player to create lots of effortless power. By that token...by power I mean: I ask the student what is power? It's a rhetorical question...control is power. The elements of power are speed, placement and spin. The amount or percentage of each element varies with the type of shot. Sometimes you go with outright speed, but more often than not you go with clever combinations of spin and placement. Like a baseball pitcher...the more options the more variations and permutations you have to set your opponent up for each point by varying the tactic. Only Roger Federer has exhibited this sort of performance in the modern game. Most of the other drones are simply trying to pound their opponent into next week with speed alone. Note that only Roger Federer had the ability to complete his service game consistently by playing them in over a minute. When he got his motion on track, it was very difficult to get it off track. The secret lies in a perfect, seamless, frictionless motion. I see this in your daughter's motion...potentially.

The service should be thought of in terms of aiming and delivery. The aiming is crucial. Starting at setup and the placement of the feet, body and racquet. Getting the racquet on the track and keeping it there like a friction-less roller-coaster track. Roller-coaster serving theory. I wrote of this and I will see if I can find the post. The one thing I do not like in the motion is the initiation of the motion which is the all Federer nuance. He owns that. But it isn't necessarily fundamentally correct. Like the golf swing...it is a never ending project. Professional golfer are always on the range trying to find their swing. Any tiny flaws have a habit of derailing the motion when they need it most. The same happens with the serve. This is why serving out sets and matches can be dicey. Very dicey if the motion has a hitch or two or three.

Such an interesting project, florin. Great that you have a coach that you have confidence in. That Adelina has confidence in. Hopefully in a couple of years she will be more or less coaching herself. Give proper fundamentals...it will all come down to tactics. Technique is not the ends...it is only the means to the ends. Then it boils down to match play psychology and tactics. Super interesting. Most excitedly...you have given her two extra years to develop from my first shot! Best of luck and Godspeed!

By the way...speaking of Federesque forehands...this was a favorite of John's music videos. I used it many times here on the forum discussing various aspects of the stroke:

https://www.tennisplayer.net/categor...ex_small.html/

[florin]

Thank you all so much for the support! From my point of view, she is 100% a product of Tennisplayer.net. The forehand is the shot I’m most proud of—especially the straight-arm forehand, which is the closest I could teach her based on my understanding of Dr. Gordon’s teachings.
Thank you, Don_Budge. One more thing: she just turned 14 in October, and we’re incredibly lucky to have a fantastic coach—someone who also coaches the current No. 1 ITF junior in the world.
I really wish more parents knew about this site and how unbelievable it truly is.

[don_budge]

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone on tennisplayer.net who’s shared advice and support over the years. This site has meant a lot to our family, and we’ve learned a great deal from the knowledge and experience people are willing to share here.
I also want to give a special thank-you to John Yandell. His insight and generosity were meaningful to us early on, and he is truly missed. We’re grateful for the impact he had on our journey.
Quick update—Adelina is the IMG International Girls 16 Champion and much of her technique was shaped by the information and teaching shared on this site.

Thanks again to all of you.

Thanks florin for this follow up and the words of appreciation. I appreciate your respectful approach to the forum and the legacy of John Yandell. I wholeheartedly agree with you. He is truly missed. By yours truly. Thank you...that really resonated with me in particular.

I advised you earlier in this thread to work and concentrate on the athleticism of your daughter and I am impressed with her set of "wheels". She looks to be very sturdy in her legs. The picture on the face of the video before you play it is from a shot played over her head and she is going to run backwards to chase it down...even though it was out. I think that she looks very poised in a rather awkward situation which I find somewhat telling. Movement is maybe the most important attribute of an aspiring tennis player.

As a tennis coach or as a coach of anyone in anything, the thing that I begin to size up with an individual is what I call potential. In fact, my dear old tennis coach taught me this. From a three minute video I begin to size up the student and start to question where is there undeveloped potential and potential room for improvement. The old wise tennis coach used to say that "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link". Just a few observations.

Fundamentally, I would say that Adelina has developed pretty sound technique in the forehand and the backhand. As I mentioned...it's the wheels that get my attention. The athleticism. Obviously, she has made nice strides in the last couple of years in terms of maturity. I'm not a huge proponent of gym work as there is only so many hours in a day...but at 16 years old she is at a stage in her development where any improvement she makes in "quickness and agility" is going to pay dividends in the future. Several times a week make certain to make an extra effort in this regard. I'm an old school proponent of "the best way to train for tennis is to play sets" and play them under simulated match conditions. Sets...sets...and more sets against good practice partners of like mind. This is your best bang for the buck.

I think, as I recommended earlier, that developing a flatter forehand that can be used on demand when the situation calls for it is such a good weapon to have in the arsenal. Good depth with heavier spin is that great neutralizer and rally ball...looking for the opening to be aggressive. Backhand is for sound and solid defense, although it is true in the modern game it is used more aggressively when the situation calls for it. I strongly recommend development of a tactical slice backhand. Not just a defensive shot...but one that neutralizes and even used to attack, as in approaching the net.

The service motion is what I am particularly pleased with. A very nice gravity based motion with a solid platform stance. I see lots and lots of potential here. It doesn't appear that she is very tall...so the default motion or spin is probably something between slice and kick. A three quarter overspin if you get my drift. What I like about her motion is she has the potential for about nine deliveries into each service box. Hopefully her coach can develop her service game tactically to address each opponent individually and probe for the delivery that upsets there balance for return. Keeping the opponent off balance with variety and tactically thought out strategy.

Movement. Attack forehand. Service combinations. There are three areas for development off the top of my head.

Now for the deep dive. The mental game. Playing to the score. Cerebral advantage to the player that is thinking and analyzing their opponent from the first ball in warm up. My tennis teaching paradigm goes like this..."William Tilden II is the book. Richard Gonzalez is the model with the Don Budge backhand. Harry Hopman is the coach. Roger Federer is the Living Proof." Obviously, I am oriented towards the men's game. But the lady who is out there outsmarting their opponent has another huge weapon in their arsenal. Cerebral power. The mental game. Bill Tilden wrote one book called "Match Play and the Spin of the Ball" in the 1920's. This book still has no rival on the game of tennis. Even taking into account how the game has changed. This was the bible of the great Australian coach Harry Hopman. Another crucial read for the developing tennis player is "How to Play Better Tennis...a complete guide to technique and tactics". While the technique aspect of this book is routinely snubbed by the modern day tennis aficionado...make of that what you will. It isn't as obsolete as many would have you believe. But there is a chapter (Part 3) in this book called..."Match Play Tactics and Tennis Psychology" that could very well serve as the foundation of an aspiring tennis player's mental game and development. Chapter 16 is called, "Maintaining Pressure on Your Opponent". This is gold. In this chapter Tilden discusses playing to the score. A must read.

I've got one more idea that I will share in the near future. A drill where the player works forwards to the net...retreats to the baseline and immediately works to the net. Over and over and over...agility and quickness. Approach shots...flatter forehands...volleys and overheads. Fun...fun...fun!

Thanks again. So good to hear of your excitement and progress. Very cool!

[stotty]

Amazing result, and what a great example of great player development. It’s also wonderful to cite John and the contribution of Tennisplayer in Adelina’s progress. She looks a terrific prospect and shows all the hallmarks of a player coached with real thought and skill. And by the way...she has lovely footwork!

[BrianGordon]

Great result - congratulations!

[florin]

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone on tennisplayer.net who’s shared advice and support over the years. This site has meant a lot to our family, and we’ve learned a great deal from the knowledge and experience people are willing to share here.
I also want to give a special thank-you to John Yandell. His insight and generosity were meaningful to us early on, and he is truly missed. We’re grateful for the impact he had on our journey.
Quick update—Adelina is the IMG International Girls 16 Champion and much of her technique was shaped by the information and teaching shared on this site.

Thanks again to all of you.

[John Yandell]

Film it tight like Tennisplayer strokes very hard to see much from this.

[florin]

[florin]

After 1 year : https://youtu.be/N0wbZey7ei4

[don_budge]

We already worked to fix the forehand and i have to say that is a big difference, not visually because is hard to notice, but the balls are not that loopy and she hits more penetrating and flat.

This a tremendous takeaway from the discussion. In the beginning...I would much prefer to see a flatter ball. Once you go down the path of excessive topspin it is much more difficult to produce the flat ball. Under pressure the player almost always tries to hit with more and more topspin, which has the effect of producing a ball that falls shorter and shorter in the court. Conversely, it is much easier to learn to hit topspin after making the flat ball your default shot. Best of luck to you and daughter. Thanks for posting. This generated the most interesting thread on the forum in quite some time. Tremendous posts by the experts!

Btw...Tecnifibre makes an excellent line of ladies raquets including a model that is 295 grams. Swiatek is currently using one of their models.

[BrianGordon]

Hi don_budge - yes, the racquet could certainly be a factor. And before I had a chance to read your post, Florin verified your observation. I suspect there may be other issues which we will be able to assess if we get an updated video with the lighter frame.

[florin]

I wanna thank everyone for their input, we are already working on the forehand, i don’t even have words how much help this site and forum is for me and my daughter. don_budge is right , it was not the size of the racket but the weight that created the flexion, till 2 months ago she played with RF 95 Autograph, which is one of the heaviest rackets on the market, the coach we had at the beginning of her tennis, was enforcing that all the kids he coached to use it. RF 95 v13 has 340 g vs Babolat Rafa 300 g unstrung is a big difference, she never complained about pain or tiredness, maybe because she started training more serious only 6 months ago when we moved to Orlando. We already worked to fix the forehand and i have to say that is a big difference, not visually because is hard to notice, but the balls are not that loopy and she hits more penetrating and flat.

[stroke]

Its about as good as theoretical deviation's get. Plus isn't it great to hear from good old 10splayer! I remember when this forum was great. MFGA! Make the Forum Great Again. But Dr. Gordon...lost in this discussion was an interesting point that florin brought up on the first page that for some reason I am no longer able to access. He questioned whether the racquet was to big for his slender eleven year old daughter. I also found that it appeared that it seemed to be a bit unwieldy for her and recommended upping her physical training. Could the raquet be too heavy for her to get that wrist in the position you desire? I know that isn't very technical...but I wonder if it might just be applicable.

Racquet swingweight may be more important relatively than static weight. I remember good ol tennis chiro(another good one MFGA) once wrote an article in which he advocated a very doctored up head heavy racquet as a training tool in order to get a better feel for pulling the racquet head via lag into contact.

[don_budge]

Im wondering if the angle (90 degrees or less or not) at impact has more to do with racquet orientation and the subsequent shot line then for a power release. It seem that on down the line and inside out forehands there is more of a 90 degree angle, as we know the face angle at impact is the most consequential determinant in direction

10s - Yes, this was the point I made (not very clearly) in "post 14". The racquet rotation will add to racquet head speed forward but the main goal is proper alignment as a determinant of shot direction.

Florin - I chimed in here to point out that in my experience you want to address the orientation of the racquet (primarily a wrist function) at the end of the back swing. The reason I chimed in is because I admire you for trying to construct the forehand this way (despite common resistance). I thought my successes and failures might be of assistance. I fear our theoretical deviation (while applicable) has detracted from focus on your daughter's stroke. If so, sorry - back to Adelina and keep up the great work!

Its about as good as theoretical deviation's get. Plus isn't it great to hear from good old 10splayer! I remember when this forum was great. MFGA! Make the Forum Great Again. But Dr. Gordon...lost in this discussion was an interesting point that florin brought up on the first page that for some reason I am no longer able to access. He questioned whether the racquet was to big for his slender eleven year old daughter. I also found that it appeared that it seemed to be a bit unwieldy for her and recommended upping her physical training. Could the raquet be too heavy for her to get that wrist in the position you desire? I know that isn't very technical...but I wonder if it might just be applicable.

[BrianGordon]

Jeff - Yes, the wrist must allow the centripetal force to rotate the racquet. I think of it as a variably resisted hinge in the late stages of the forward swing.

10s - Yes, this was the point I made (not very clearly) in "post 14". The racquet rotation will add to racquet head speed forward but the main goal is proper alignment as a determinant of shot direction.

Florin - I chimed in here to point out that in my experience you want to address the orientation of the racquet (primarily a wrist function) at the end of the back swing. The reason I chimed in is because I admire you for trying to construct the forehand this way (despite common resistance). I thought my successes and failures might be of assistance. I fear our theoretical deviation (while applicable) has detracted from focus on your daughter's stroke. If so, sorry - back to Adelina and keep up the great work!