Rather frustrating...

[tennis_chiro]

Perfect video demonstration

I think Marat Safin demonstrates from this perspective the action you mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhrfqjokS_Q

Great find again, Phil. This clip perfectly demonstrates what I am saying and what the drawing of Pete's serve in Technical Tennis illustrates. If you can get some of that in your motion, your serve will pick up significant speed, accuracy and consistency.
don

[tennis_chiro]

Try to let it happen

I have never found a teaching pro in Switzerland who ever noticed this, much less really understood the biomechanics of the serve. They all say my serve is fine, when I know very well that, among other things, I have this drop problem. Thank goodness for TennisPlayer.net and you guys...

A last question: to get the right angle of approach, should I also think of supinating my arm as I get to the bottom of the drop? (will try your excercises this week...)

Phil,
If you try this with a weighted racket head, you will feel the move to the right (from the rear) naturally. If you relax the arm it will happen. Most people tighten up and try to help it too much. What really helps this move is the forward turn of the hips (hitting with the belly button) before the actual acceleration up to contact. Don't overthink it. You have to feel it.

don

[tennis_chiro]

To the right from the back

Seen from the front more to the left, seen from the back more the right?

Yes Phil, that is correct
don

[gzhpcu]

i was referring to the contact point line of the ball straight down and the angle of the racquet to your forearm
as i mentioned if you stop frame the pros at contact i think you will find a line drawn straight down from the ball it would hit the shoulder neck area on a first serve . more to the left than you. if you draw a line from contact straight don your goes to the right of your shoulder
with the contact alittle more to the left the angle of the racquet to the fore arm is also tilted more to the left.
phil you like me like to analyse in great detail
i think if you do dons drill especially with a weighted racquet you will FEEL it and not worry about supination. just my 2 cents

On my second serve, seems like it is the shoulder neck area, isn't it?


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[llll]

don heres a question ive been thinking about
what comes first the chicken or the egg?
no this is not philosophy class. this is what i mean
since it takes time for the racquet to get to the right side of the body
people with deeper drops are spending more time relatively speaking before they start up
therefore giving the racquet more time to get over to the right side of there body.
so its a catch 22
to have the racquet on the right side of your body longer you need a deeper racquet drop
what do you think?

[llll]

Seen from the front more to the left, seen from the back more the right?

i was referring to the contact point line of the ball straight down and the angle of the racquet to your forearm
as i mentioned if you stop frame the pros at contact i think you will find a line drawn straight down from the ball it would hit the shoulder neck area on a first serve . more to the left than you. if you draw a line from contact straight don your goes to the right of your shoulder
with the contact alittle more to the left the angle of the racquet to the fore arm is also tilted more to the left.
phil you like me like to analyse in great detail
i think if you do dons drill especially with a weighted racquet you will FEEL it and not worry about supination. just my 2 cents

[gzhpcu]

This is a hard concept to get across to the student when I am standing next to him and manipulating his racket and body through the swing. From here to Switzerland on a forum, it is really tough. But yes Larry, it is really important.

don

I think Marat Safin demonstrates from this perspective the action you mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhrfqjokS_Q

[gzhpcu]

This is a hard concept to get across to the student when I am standing next to him and manipulating his racket and body through the swing. From here to Switzerland on a forum, it is really tough. But yes Larry, it is really important.

don

I have never found a teaching pro in Switzerland who ever noticed this, much less really understood the biomechanics of the serve. They all say my serve is fine, when I know very well that, among other things, I have this drop problem. Thank goodness for TennisPlayer.net and you guys...

A last question: to get the right angle of approach, should I also think of supinating my arm as I get to the bottom of the drop? (will try your excercises this week...)

[gzhpcu]

dons position is very important
if you extrapolate his angle to contact i think you can see you end up alittle to the left of where you are.(i think)
don do you agree?
p.s. i sent an email to mendi

Seen from the front more to the left, seen from the back more the right?

[tennis_chiro]

Tough from 2 continents away

OK Don,
Now I get the (seen from the back) the left to right movement at the bottom of the backswing (which brings the racket to the right side of the body). Will work on that too...

This is a hard concept to get across to the student when I am standing next to him and manipulating his racket and body through the swing. From here to Switzerland on a forum, it is really tough. But yes Larry, it is really important.

don

[llll]

OK Don,
Now I get the (seen from the back) the left to right movement at the bottom of the backswing (which brings the racket to the right side of the body). Will work on that too...

dons position is very important
if you extrapolate his angle to contact i think you can see you end up alittle to the left of where you are.(i think)
don do you agree?
p.s. i sent an email to mendi

[gzhpcu]

OK Don,
Now I get the (seen from the back) the left to right movement at the bottom of the backswing (which brings the racket to the right side of the body). Will work on that too...

[llll]

your second serve picture is closer to rogers first serve
maybe if roger moved his first serve contact point to where yous is he could get a few more mph to his serve

[llll]

That was a first serve, here is a second serve, which is more to the left...

First serve..............................Second serve...


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phil i dont meqan to digress
but what i meant by more to the left was if you drew alone straight don from the ball at contact it goes to the right of your body.
the first video of federer 2009 tour strokes i looked at to illustrate what i am about to say next is in the arm section first serve rear #5
https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/roger-federer/
you will see if you drew aline from the ball at contact straight down the line hits his shoulder neck area and the angle of the racquet to the line of his arm is more angled to the left. remeber this was a first serve
this position of contact where a line goes to the shoulder neck area on first serves is a common position in my viewings
its alittle more to the left than that for kick serves.
maybe thats why pros have so much spin on their "flat "serves

[gzhpcu]

Found this FYB video showing how the racket moves seen from the top of the player...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgZZhATk8AY&feature=fvw