Thoughts about Tennis Tradition...

[don_budge]

Whiney Bitches…according to GeoffWilliams and hockeyscout

And the 1918 Ford model T was the best car ever. Would have blown away the formula one cars! Cornered better, handled better, had better acceleration, better driver protection, gas mileage.

Technology whiners are the worst little bitches. Does anyone think that the drivers/players of old would not have wanted the modern tech for their own advancement?

LOL - Geoff, you crack me (in a good way). Little bitches.

Low brow types like and actually prefer to resort to name calling when they have exhausted their limited ability to reason or present logical arguments. I resist the temptation to follow suit or even resort to referring to stupidity or moron like arguments. It figures the two of you have found something to mutually slobber over each other about. You do it all the time. One says something and the other is right there lapping up the vomit. It's like a knee-jerk reaction. "You crack me"…indeed. What is that? Some sort of Freudian slip? Whatever.

Does anyone think that the players of old would not have wanted the modern technology for their own advancement? Well…inside of every human being is a vast reservoir of greed and longing to advance their own interests. In this regard you are only infatuated with deluding yourself about your own ability. It gives you that warm superior feeling when using the modern technology…your obvious lack of respect for the "old" game is as obvious as your own lack of talent. Such superior feelings it must cultivate in your maligned heart. But you're not alone…you are in line with the herd. It's only human nature. Whiney little bitches.

The greatest technological improvements that the human race has made are in inventing ways to kill each other or cause the greatest sadness possible. There is your infatuation with technology. It will end up destroying everything in the end. At least it threatens to. It did destroy the game of tennis and golf…much as Mad Mac O'Grady says explicitly. As I have said so explicitly. I won't make any bones about it.

The human race as a whole doesn't show much initiative to do the heroic or to stand their ground on principle…do they? The reason? It interferes with their own greedy self interest. It's easier to go along with the crowd of morons and idiots. It's herd mentality.

John McEnroe stood on the cusp of two eras and to his great credit he hung out to the very last. He is the only player ever to rule both sides of the tennis world as the number one player in both worlds…classic and modern. Here is what he had to say and he only voiced what the greatest tennis players in the world felt at the time.

From the thread entitled..."John McEnroe versus Bjorn Borg...1980 U. S. Open Finals

ART...has left the stadium. Only the Great John McEnroe would have the balls to suggest something so outlandish as to do the right thing. The right thing to do by THE GAME.

From John McEnroe's most excellent autobiography..."Serious"...his top ten recommendations for improving tennis in the 21st Century:

"A return to wooden racquets would be a huge improvement for professional tennis. The biggest change in the game in the last twenty five years...the replacement of wood by graphite...has been a bad one. I happen to think that wooden racquets are beautiful aesthetically and purer for the game.

Look at baseball. Kids start with aluminum bats in little league, then move on to Kevlar or whatever in college and then...and only then...if they make it to the majors do they get to use those beautiful wooden bats that require greater expertise for success.

Why not do the same thing in tennis? I think that it looks great to have a little wand in your hand, instead of some ultra thick club big enough to kill somebody with. Wood...to me...has glamour. You need strategy and technique. Tennis, these days, is sadly lacking in all these things.

It's all (as David Bowie says) wham, bam, thank you ma'am." ...the great John McEnroe.

Seconded by the not so great...don_budge.

Does anyone think that the players of old would not have wanted the modern technology for their own advancement? Beautifully and eloquently put. No name calling. No put downs. Just honest heart felt words. I find it touching. John McEnroe at his finest.

Whiney bitches are fat nobodies that hide in crowds making hideous noises at professionals trying to concentrate on their craft. You admitted such behavior yourself. You admitted it while applauding yourself as if you had accomplished some major humanitarian feat. What did you describe the noise as…a howling monkey. That figures. We don't even have to address hockey etiquette or the behavior of the players or audiences. It speaks for itself…and does so loudly and unashamedly.

More on the connecting dots about Mac O'Grady when the peanut gallery gets the mischief out of their systems.

[hockeyscout]

And the 1918 Ford model T was the best car ever. Would have blown away the formula one cars! Cornered better, handled better, had better acceleration, better driver protection, gas mileage.

Technology whiners are the worst little bitches. Does anyone think that the drivers/players of old would not have wanted the modern tech for their own advancement?

LOL - Geoff, you crack me (in a good way). Little bitches.

[GeoffWilliams]

And the 1918 Ford model T was the best car ever. Would have blown away the formula one cars! Cornered better, handled better, had better acceleration, better driver protection, gas mileage.

Technology whiners are the worst little bitches. Does anyone think that the drivers/players of old would not have wanted the modern tech for their own advancement?

[don_budge]

Mac O'Grady crawls out of his hole…and finds don_budge

Meet Mac O'Grady…golf "eccentric".

http://www.golfdiscussions.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=16407.0;wap2

From the article...

AUBURN HILLS, MICH. - Tiger Woods would not have stood a chance against Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer.
That is what former PGA player Mac O'Grady, 56, said Monday at Fieldstone Golf Course about the No. 1 golfer in the world.

O'Grady, who failed to qualify for Thursday's Buick Open, said Woods, the three-time PGA and four-time Masters Champion, is the worst driver to win the Masters.

"When Nicklaus and Palmer played, when [Ben] Hogan played and Sam Snead played, on a scale of zero to 10, they were a nine-plus," he said. "Tiger Woods is not even a one-plus."

O'Grady said technology is the reason for players' success today. A change in the drivers' grooves from a V shape to a box shape allows golfers to hit the ball farther with more spin.

When in the rough, players go straight for the hole instead of trying to reach the green. This, he said, has ruined golf.

"The reason why [Woods] can hit it on the green is because he has square grooves," he said. "He doesn't have that, he's dead. He cannot do it -- it's impossible. For him to go after Nicklaus's records is cheating. This is like steroids."

O'Grady, who shot a 1-over-par 73, has studied the swing for 23 years and plans to turn his research into a book.

"The problem is the teaching hypothesis," O'Grady said. "All the teachers have different theories, and anybody can say anything. It's unregulated. One of the reasons I've done the research study is to bring in the sciences, to try to clean up some of that hocus pocus. I did the research and the science because I think there's a lot of questions that have been unanswered."

He said technological advancements in clubs and balls have eliminated curve problems.

Balls used to have what he called a concentric arc dimple configuration, meaning their indentions were in a circular shape and each dimple was the same size, allowing for even dispersion of air across them. Now dimple sizes and positions vary, eliminating the balls' curve.

"It allows all these guys to come into the game that ordinarily couldn't do it," O'Grady said. "This ball is designed for the 30-handicap. It's not designed for the pro tour. The 30-handicapper hits the ball and it goes up to the apex, it comes down straight. It doesn't slice. So when the tour pro gets it, it's robbery. It's not fair."

He said there should be a special ball for PGA players with the concentric arc dimple pattern, which he said showed who had natural ability and who did not.

"The degree of athleticism has changed," he wrote in notes he took during qualifying. "What was humanly impossible is now technologically possible."

O'Grady, who won two PGA tournaments from 1983-89, made his own nearly impossible shot Monday when he hit into a hazard on the fifth hole.

He called an official after a disagreement with a player in his group about where McGrady had to drop, which he did three times before making the shot.

Monday was O'Grady's second PGA qualifying attempt this year. He quit the tour in 1990 because of a condition called spondylolisthesis, which he noticed when he started golfing left-handed.

A disc had broken in his back and moved forward on his spinal column, and he suffered nerve damage in his feet and other areas. It took three surgeries to correct.

"We started this project in '84, then three years later I said, 'OK, I'm going to take all this research and start applying it to my left-handed game. How long would it take me to develop the skills to go left-handed?' " he said.

"In 1987, I started really practicing left-handed, and three or four months later my back started bothering me really bad. If I had to do it all over again I would never touch a club left-handed."

O'Grady said he used the qualifying event as research for his book, taking note of driving distance and players' performance.

"I still love the game," he said. "I don't enjoy the technology because what's happening is these kids now are shooting 63s, 62s. What Michelle Wie is doing is not humanly possible. It's technologically possible because the balls go too straight, they go too far."

O'Grady said in the Champions Tour, what he called former "powder-puff" players such as Jay Haas are defeating "dinosaur guys who had the best technique."All those big players, they can't say anything because they're being paid by the manufacturers [for sponsorship]. But they know it's wrong. This is the worst dark chapter in the history of professional golf with this technology.

"Steroids [are] not in the athletes today -- [they're] in the balls and the drivers. Guys don't have to hit it far. The equipment is going to do it for them."

[don_budge]

The Reality of Tradition…is that it is a thing of the past

Without tradition, new things die.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

http://augureye.blogspot.com.es/2015/06/sweeping-changes-and-high-strangeness.html

Speaking of tradition…here's an interesting article about tennis traditions…in a roundabout way. There is some serious dot connecting to do. It's not like everyone has eight hours a day chasing leads down this rabbit hole and the other one. But if you take the time…I'm not suggesting one way or the other…you will find that things are not what they appear to be these days. If they ever were. My dear old mother told me once years ago…"don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see".

Is that one wise woman or what?

From the article…he calls it like I see it. From my unenviable position of being forced to speculate. But that being said…I try to discern. I try my best.

"When things created in 3D begin breaking down in 4D - don't waste time or energy attempting to make things as you remember them; just bless it, release it and move on. Learn to recognize when something has served its purpose for you, and just let it go.

4D is not 3D, and the reason so many are dealing with cognitive dissonance and fear right now is because they're still carrying on as if we're all still skipping along in 3D reality. There is a reason why so many things and institutions and governments are breaking down just now: their time is done yet they continue thinking and behaving as if all the same old "rules" still apply. They don't.

The rules have not only changed, they're in a kind of fluid state where they morph abruptly without notice or warning, into something entirely different; forcing us to be vigilant and cognizant of our surroundings day to day. No, things definitely are not as they seem much of the time these days, because of conflicting world entities who are at cross purpose with one another. Leaves the rest of us in the unenviable position of being caught between them as they grapple."

What does it mean? Well to me it means that tennis has morphed into something that is not tennis any longer. Roger Federer is the last dot connecting tennis to the reality that was once tennis. He is finishing off his illustrious career and he will no longer be a viable solution to the existing problem. The problem for me that is…me and my cognitive dissonance.

So it will in all likelihood be adios from don_budge…an alter ego that I created for myself here on tennisplayer.net. An alter ego to indulge myself and to serve as a warning to others. In reality though don_budge is not all that far from the myself. It's only that he has had a forum from which to speak. An audience that he can "trust"…trust to be themselves. To think for themselves. An audience that has become in some ways…the best friends that I have ever had.

"Learn to recognize when something has served its purpose for you, and just let it go."

[klacr]

Without tradition, new things die.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[don_budge]

Tennis, Snowden, Putin, Greece: It’s All The Same Story

Tennis, Snowden, Putin, Greece: It’s All The Same Story.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-14/snowden-putin-greece-it’s-all-same-story

"But it is what happens, time and again, and, once again arguably, ever more so. What we think the world looks like is increasingly shaped by fiction. Perhaps that means we live in dreamtime. Or nightmare time. Whatever you call it, it’s not real. Pinching yourself is not going to help. Reading Orwell might."

Tennis mirroring life. The tennis that we are watching today is make believe. It's hard to believe…until you take it into context with the rest of what is happening in the world. The news that you get is only propaganda. The world wide takedown of tradition. It's a brave new world…ladies and gentlemen.

[stotty]

Work like a beaver...good plan

I originally had the week off from the tennis club. Living out in the country gives me the opportunity to mosey around and look for things to do. There is always something to do. It's ideal if you are a hermit. There's nobody here to mess with you.

Walking out on the back 10…I came across an interesting sight. We have a ditch running along the rear of the property that drains excess water away. Funny thing is…some beaver or beavers have somehow made their way up the ditch and made themselves at home. I used to walk out there more often until my dog got older and it had been a couple years…maybe.

You've heard the expression "busy as a beaver". Now I understand. The beaver or beavers have made three dams…each a hundred meters or so from each other and they have the water so backed up the back property is looking like some sort of swamp. Not only this but it is hard to believe just how many trees these industrious little rascals have brought down using only their teeth. They love the birch and are very selective.

The construction of the dams are really quite interesting. Particularly more so when you don't have much to do. So I set about dismantling them and I have been working at it for six or seven days now. By now my friend the beaver, or beavers, has caught on and it is a battle of man against beaver. I take it down during the day and he is busy all night. I have him now…and you would not believe what went into making this structure.

There must be some "Beaver University of Engineering" because I swear you must have to go to school to learn this shit. You wouldn't think these guys are very smart but they certainly are industrious. It's interesting to study the construction as you are destructing it. The clever mix of twigs and mud along with larger branches the are intricately woven together to make something that not only holds back the water but takes a hell of an effort to dismantle.

I really hate messing with the beavers and I truly believe that they have every right to be where they are. It pains me to take down his work although it will certainly make a mess of our property if he goes unchecked. Today I finally reached the foundation of the thing and after nearly falling ass over teakettle a dozen times into the drink it seems that I am getting the upper hand. It is exhausting work and when I am done working on it I sit down on a log or a fallen tree or a large stone and just breath. The air is perhaps the cleanest in the world and it is so refreshing to be in a spot…where there aren't any people. Just the beaver…and some elk. Deer too.

I played tennis a couple of times this week as well. I am thinking deeply about my serve and my backhand. I have actually tweaked my "perfect motion" which leads me to believe that it wasn't perfect in the first place. What a surprise. But the Rick Macci "elbow, shoulder, shoulder" and "toss, tilt and bend" is a mind blowing experience. The other thing is that whenever possible…I under the guise of teaching have been using my backhand. The adjustment that I am making is one of strengthening my grip and concentrating on hitting the ball earlier and more aggressively when driving it. Inspired by the talk of one hand backhands, Wawrinka and Federer (Swiss models), and Project J. I'm a project too…why not. I did the continental thing a couple of years ago. John McEnroe style.

But the beaver got me thinking about the foundations of the game…and fundamentals. Nobody had to teach these guys how to build. They don't have any blueprints. No degrees. No certifications. Just really sharp teeth and determined attitudes. I really have come to be fond of these guys. I have been advised to eliminate them…the pesky little terrorists. But I really hate the thought of killing them. More so than than I care about people. These guys are absolutely doing what God put them here on this planet to do. They certainly don't seem to have an evil bone in their body. I guess I'll just play the game with them. They build by night and I take it down during the day. At least they will be too preoccupied to take down any more trees. You would not believe the size of the trees that they have toppled.

Terrorists. What is a terrorist? Don't they have children or pets? Why do people kill so many people? I don't think many beavers have killed many other beavers. I guess they are too busy minding their business…plus they don't have national security issues or interests. They are pretty much happy to have some good juicy stock to chew on. I'm actually becoming pretty fond of these guys. I go out to check on their work and looking forward to the day I catch sight of them.

Those creatures are quite amazing. Aside from the fundamentals, it's amazing what they can get done in a day when they get up in the morning and work until dusk...apart from the odd preening session. It was a good video to watch because my wife and I decided to tackle the kitchen in the same way. A full spring clean and reorganisation of the room. It started this morning and finished about now, 6pm. Now if tomorrow we tackled another job in the same way, then another the next day, then another, then another...our achievements would be amazing over a lifetime. I would probably end up extremely well organised and rich...neither of which I am at the moment.

A tennis player would be amazing if he truly worked as a beaver does. Tackle one thing in the morning, another in the afternoon....perfect both. Another day starts and work on the next thing....perfect that. The next day....

Work like a beaver. Great saying. Those guys have got real discipline.

[don_budge]

Messin' with the Beavers...

Beavers...

https://vimeo.com/30613141

I originally had the week off from the tennis club. Living out in the country gives me the opportunity to mosey around and look for things to do. There is always something to do. It's ideal if you are a hermit. There's nobody here to mess with you.

Walking out on the back 10…I came across an interesting sight. We have a ditch running along the rear of the property that drains excess water away. Funny thing is…some beaver or beavers have somehow made their way up the ditch and made themselves at home. I used to walk out there more often until my dog got older and it had been a couple years…maybe.

You've heard the expression "busy as a beaver". Now I understand. The beaver or beavers have made three dams…each a hundred meters or so from each other and they have the water so backed up the back property is looking like some sort of swamp. Not only this but it is hard to believe just how many trees these industrious little rascals have brought down using only their teeth. They love the birch and are very selective.

The construction of the dams are really quite interesting. Particularly more so when you don't have much to do. So I set about dismantling them and I have been working at it for six or seven days now. By now my friend the beaver, or beavers, has caught on and it is a battle of man against beaver. I take it down during the day and he is busy all night. I have him now…and you would not believe what went into making this structure.

There must be some "Beaver University of Engineering" because I swear you must have to go to school to learn this shit. You wouldn't think these guys are very smart but they certainly are industrious. It's interesting to study the construction as you are destructing it. The clever mix of twigs and mud along with larger branches the are intricately woven together to make something that not only holds back the water but takes a hell of an effort to dismantle.

I really hate messing with the beavers and I truly believe that they have every right to be where they are. It pains me to take down his work although it will certainly make a mess of our property if he goes unchecked. Today I finally reached the foundation of the thing and after nearly falling ass over teakettle a dozen times into the drink it seems that I am getting the upper hand. It is exhausting work and when I am done working on it I sit down on a log or a fallen tree or a large stone and just breath. The air is perhaps the cleanest in the world and it is so refreshing to be in a spot…where there aren't any people. Just the beaver…and some elk. Deer too.

I played tennis a couple of times this week as well. I am thinking deeply about my serve and my backhand. I have actually tweaked my "perfect motion" which leads me to believe that it wasn't perfect in the first place. What a surprise. But the Rick Macci "elbow, shoulder, shoulder" and "toss, tilt and bend" is a mind blowing experience. The other thing is that whenever possible…I under the guise of teaching have been using my backhand. The adjustment that I am making is one of strengthening my grip and concentrating on hitting the ball earlier and more aggressively when driving it. Inspired by the talk of one hand backhands, Wawrinka and Federer (Swiss models), and Project J. I'm a project too…why not. I did the continental thing a couple of years ago. John McEnroe style.

But the beaver got me thinking about the foundations of the game…and fundamentals. Nobody had to teach these guys how to build. They don't have any blueprints. No degrees. No certifications. Just really sharp teeth and determined attitudes. I really have come to be fond of these guys. I have been advised to eliminate them…the pesky little terrorists. But I really hate the thought of killing them. More so than than I care about people. These guys are absolutely doing what God put them here on this planet to do. They certainly don't seem to have an evil bone in their body. I guess I'll just play the game with them. They build by night and I take it down during the day. At least they will be too preoccupied to take down any more trees. You would not believe the size of the trees that they have toppled.

Terrorists. What is a terrorist? Don't they have children or pets? Why do people kill so many people? I don't think many beavers have killed many other beavers. I guess they are too busy minding their business…plus they don't have national security issues or interests. They are pretty much happy to have some good juicy stock to chew on. I'm actually becoming pretty fond of these guys. I go out to check on their work and looking forward to the day I catch sight of them.

[don_budge]

Leave it to Beaver...

Beavers...

https://vimeo.com/30613141

[don_budge]

The Book is Bill Tilden...

Because the player hits the ball so well and transfers the momentum of his racket to the ball so efficiently, it appears that he has not swung that hard and when the ball comes rocketing off his racket face at the same speed as a ball that comes off an inefficient swing that appears to be a much faster swing, we are deceived. True pace is deceptive speed. When you hit it, you know it.
don

In golf one might say that they "flushed" a shot that was hit so well. This is accomplished by perfectly timing the transfer of the weight of the player and all of the motion of the swing, the actual stroke, into the club head just as it is striking the ball. The truth is you don't swing harder…you swing better. The trick is to get the fastest part of the swing through the hit zone of the ball. This actually causes an accomplished golfer to appear to be swinging "slower".

The same might be said in tennis. When a student hits an unusually good shot for them…somehow by luck they have managed to flush it. They have managed to get all of the body parts lined up correctly (vectors tennis_chiro refers to them as) and they have timed the weight transfer perfectly. I immediately ask the student, "how did that feel?" to try and get them on the road to repeatable swings. This is of course the same principle that applies for golf…or any other sport for that matter. The transfer of weight into the ball.

It's a game of energy and balance. The duel between opponents is to battle over the energy being applied to the ball and this is accomplished more often than not when one player is superior in getting a balanced position from which to swing. "Get in position!!!"…is a frequent command that I give to tennis students. Get your ass in position…your head too!

"Match Play and the Spin of the Ball"…a must study for any serious tennis student.

[don_budge]

All arm…or get your weight behind your shots. Speed versus Pace...

Match Play and the Spin of the Ball....what a book. One of the most remarkable paragraphs in the book, for me at least, is the one below. I suppose some would argue the meaning of pace and speed are the same...let them do so...it's not the point for me. When I read that paragraph I was bowled over. Surely Tilden had stumbled on the theory of the "heavy ball" in tennis...light years before anyone else?

"Speed and pace are not the same. They are totally different. Speed is the rate at which the ball travels through the air. Pace is the momentum (rate of speed, plus the player’s weight) with which it comes off the ground. Thus a fast shot that has not the player’s weight in it does not carry pace when it comes off the ground. Conversely, some shots travel comparatively slowly through the air, but by virtue of the player’s weight behind them come off the ground with pace."

Truly a great topic for discussion among knowledgable tennis aficionados. This somewhat brief statement has all kinds of implications when you begin to think about developing a tennis player.

I always tell a new student or a newcomer to the game…"Tennis is a game of balance and energy". Then I pause a moment to let it sink in…and to gloat just a bit as to how brilliant a statement that is. "Match Play and the Spin of the Ball is the most brilliant book ever written about tennis. Harry Hopman…the legendary coach of the great Australian dynasty passed this on to his players as the "Bible of Tennis". Sometimes I think of this great book with an alternative title…"Match Play and the Path of the Ball" or "Match Play and the Trajectory of the Ball". It is brilliant in its straight forward, no nonsense delivery and curiously it is void of any references to technology. Afterall it was written in…get this…1925. It is even older than me.

I can still remember the sound of my dear old tennis coach Sherm Collins voice in my head speaking to me of this or that. His lessons were often speckled with quotes of Tilden and references to Richard Gonzales. He called me "Pancho". But what you have quoted here is what you call one of those white light moments of inspiration quotes by Tilden…he talks about the difference between "speed and pace".

He further adds…"A player may hit a very fast drive by a wild swing of his arm, yet it will carry no pace, as his weight placement is out of the shot and not in it."

So there you go. All you tennis coaches…you can go from there with your teaching game.

Super post…by a super guy. Thanks for the superb quote. It doesn't get any more Fundamentally Correct (FC) than that.

I played in 1971 with Laver, Rosewall, Ashe, Ralston, Emerson and Graebner that winter. Old Dick Savitt definitely had the "heaviest ball".

Murray actually said something without understanding exactly what he was saying (or maybe he did understand), when he said that the way Novak was hitting the ball, it didn't take as much energy for him to hit his big shots. Djokovic was hitting with tremendous "pace".

don

Great discussion regarding pace and speed. I get you. But what an amazing list of practice names. All of them Hall of Famers…classic tennis players. A "Who's Who" no less. Most interesting are your observations about Dick Savitt.

Around the same time in history I had the great privilege of knowing Don Budge. I was lucky enough to get to hit with him and play doubles with him several times. This man truly had the heaviest ball that I have ever experienced. It is tough to describe the sensation of being on the receiving end of his shots. I remember the serve in particular that had wonderful pace on it. His swing was so rhythmic and almost laconic but it really carried that "pace" that William Tilden is referring to. It didn't hurt that his old wooden racquet was unusually heavy…it certainly felt and sounded as if he was using a baseball bat.

I remember watching the last couple of sets of the Australian Open final between Novak Djokovic and Andy Murray. I took turns watching each of them individually and solely never taking my eyes off one or the other. There were subtle differences in how they were preparing for their shots and how they were moving to the ball and getting into position. The announcers at the beginning of the match were questioning whether Novak would be able to match the physical conditioning of Murray. I guess there must have been speculation about his conditioning and Murray had been very public about how hard he had worked. But it was Murray who seemed to be laboring just a tad harder therefore struggling just a bit more to get his weight behind his shots. The end result was very telling…a bagel in the fifth.

But it was Djokovic that was smoother transitioning to the ball overall. It was Novak who had the superior balance when he was playing his shots. As I have mentioned in the other thread he has this uncanny ability to regain his composure and balance even when it appears that he is hopelessly out of position. This discussion about speed and pace is not lost when you are discussing the outcome of that match. It sort of explains how Djokovic was able to completely dominate his opponents during the tournament. His pace was exceptional and it just wore down his competition.

[gzhpcu]

Swing speeds are faster today also because the rackets are lighter. In the old days the wooden rackets were much heavier, resulting in more mass at impact. The swingweight of the racket also plays a role.

[hockeyscout]

Swing speeds are much faster than when you were watching the two Panchos at the Beverly Hills Tennis Club. But a lot more of the energy goes into spin. The problem for a lot of players is they put too much energy into spin and not enough into horizontal speed. And you also have players like Ryan Harrison who, IMO, when they are faced with a short ball and a chance to hit a "concluder" try to just swing much faster with a lot more spin and some increased horizontal velocity because the ball is offering them an opportunity to attack; the better players know how to release the shot and just allow more energy to go into that horizontal velocity and hit their concluders with "true pace", i.e. deceptive speed which penetrates the court much more effectively. I saw this as a major shortcoming for Ryan even when he was breaking into the top 50; now he is struggling to stay in the top 200 (currently 165).

You are an engineer, Phil. You understand what I mean when I say make the vectors of the momentum of the racket head and the outgoing path of the ball the same. Obviously, there is a trade-off between spin and speed. Today's players manage to deliver the racket head to impact on a path closer to the outgoing path of the ball and yet create more spin by "wipering" off of that path as the ball leaves the racket. The modern, bigger, lighter rackets and more responsive strings made that possible; technique and grips as well. But you still have to learn to hit through the ball as well as generate spin. I think it is easier to learn the classic stroke first and add more spin later, but others would argue to start working on that "wiper action" early on (Oscar and MTM, and maybe Chris Lewit). I haven't done enough studies both ways to say which is right. I emphasize hitting through the ball first. Those of us that learned to hit through with a lot less spin may need to take just the opposite tack and really focus on getting spin to overcome our decades of classic stroke technique; I'm just happy when I get near an Eastern grip on my forehand, much less a semi-Western. I marvel at the way my students hit high balls and swing at short forehands near the service line with the energy I would use for an overhead. I know how to do it, but I can't!!! I imagine what I could have done if I had known 40 years ago what I know now.

don

Its neat to see an established coach like tennis_chiro holds top spin in the same ballpark as me! That's a great post from a guy who's ahead of the loop IMO.

Tennis is an interesting sport, lots of world class coaches who simply don't get a chance to work with elite players because maybe they don't kiss ass, move in the right circles, agree to go along with the establishments program and, or, simply have their kids poached by the Federations who generally have deplorable track records at developing players and should leave it to guys who are great grassroots coaches, dads, ex boxers, baseball and hockey guys, uncles, aunts, who have a love for the game and are willing to be BALLERS.

Guys like me, tennis_chiro, GeoffWilliams and Don_Budge we're all likely pure ballers, playing on the dilapidated courts and developing a deep love for sports. Now everyone thinks they need a boatload of cash to be a great player, and they bypass the coaches who are out their experimenting with new ideas, never playing on public courts, not playing other sports and all the rest, and totally focused on getting the best shoes, rackets, brand name coaches, extreme top spin, standing in one place, refusing to act a bit crazy and try jumping, exploding and exploring some non tennis techniques, playing at prestigious facilities and all this shit.

It will be interesting to see how my young one develops in the years ahead playing on dilapidated clay with no sponsorship or advice from associations, using non-tennis principals and setups and with guys who are true ballers who just love to play the game, hit the ball, watch matches and yap tennis.

The first month my daughter started playing Ryan Harrison came next to us and started playing out of the blue with his girlfriend. His GF kept getting mad at the young one shrieking at the top of her lungs and constantly mishitting balls onto her side!

Yes, I agree. No top spin in early stages of development. I am stunned with everyones focus in this area. Learn to hit winners first, hit the lines, penetrate, low, hard and deep. And when you can do that at a precocious level begin the live ball and rally. I don't think kids should be put into rallies for at least the first two years of their tennis career. I just don't see the sense in kids hitting big loopy balls and instructors even hitting worse balls. Just put it in their wheelhouse, and go. Focus on one shot at a time, balls coming to them in the air, from all different areas and have them hit flat out winners where they are being as athletic as possible and getting it on the rise. Yes, it is hard, and the difficulty level is extreme, however, that is how you get good. In the early stages of my young ones development I used black balls. So, she had to cheat, and watch closely what was happening in my hands and hips, as the ball is impossible to see. That develops feel, which is so important, and can be taught. I do not think kids should be put into competitions until 3-5 years of development.

Anyways, I have done it all backwards according to the establishment, and maybe that is good, and maybe it is bad.

You always wonder when you are setting up a program if its a bat shit crazy methodology you are using, and even if your player is destroying Under 10 competition and hitting like a Junior it's not guarantee that will be effective long term.

The issue with coaching is it takes you a good decade to see if you're on the right track, or off base, and anyone who says they know for sure is blowing smoke up your ass as the sport has a major evolution every 10-20 years and how in the hell can you really make sure you are ready for that or have a vision of what 2020 to 2030 will really be like?

[tennis_chiro]

So, in short, what is being said here? Just swing fast and hit flat?

Swing speeds are much faster than when you were watching the two Panchos at the Beverly Hills Tennis Club. But a lot more of the energy goes into spin. The problem for a lot of players is they put too much energy into spin and not enough into horizontal speed. And you also have players like Ryan Harrison who, IMO, when they are faced with a short ball and a chance to hit a "concluder" try to just swing much faster with a lot more spin and some increased horizontal velocity because the ball is offering them an opportunity to attack; the better players know how to release the shot and just allow more energy to go into that horizontal velocity and hit their concluders with "true pace", i.e. deceptive speed which penetrates the court much more effectively. I saw this as a major shortcoming for Ryan even when he was breaking into the top 50; now he is struggling to stay in the top 200 (currently 165).

You are an engineer, Phil. You understand what I mean when I say make the vectors of the momentum of the racket head and the outgoing path of the ball the same. Obviously, there is a trade-off between spin and speed. Today's players manage to deliver the racket head to impact on a path closer to the outgoing path of the ball and yet create more spin by "wipering" off of that path as the ball leaves the racket. The modern, bigger, lighter rackets and more responsive strings made that possible; technique and grips as well. But you still have to learn to hit through the ball as well as generate spin. I think it is easier to learn the classic stroke first and add more spin later, but others would argue to start working on that "wiper action" early on (Oscar and MTM, and maybe Chris Lewit). I haven't done enough studies both ways to say which is right. I emphasize hitting through the ball first. Those of us that learned to hit through with a lot less spin may need to take just the opposite tack and really focus on getting spin to overcome our decades of classic stroke technique; I'm just happy when I get near an Eastern grip on my forehand, much less a semi-Western. I marvel at the way my students hit high balls and swing at short forehands near the service line with the energy I would use for an overhead. I know how to do it, but I can't!!! I imagine what I could have done if I had known 40 years ago what I know now.

don

don