My Thoughts on the McEnroe Forehand...

[don_budge]

The John McEnroe forehand as viewed while RUNNING...

RUNNING

FH Running Rear1- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

running to his left mcenroe arrives at the ball having perfectly measured his steps striking the ball just before his front foot meets the ground. the preparation of the racquet while hurrying to get into position is done a great deal by merely turning the shoulders again swing the arm backwards into position to deliver the standard payload of the continental grip loaded wrist. the pulling of the butt cap appears to be abbreviated but i think that the racquet face is more exposed to the ball and stays that way longer before and after impact thereby insuring more contact with the sweet spot of the strings. by driving off of his back leg with his last step towards the ball he has also engaged the lower body to do its part of the work. more golf on the run.

FH Running Rear2- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

an interesting angle of the mcenroe forehand hit on the move. here at the “bottom” of his backswing the racquet head is partially below his knees...at this point of the backswing his wrist is not in the position that it will need to be in to go forwards so the racquet will be “lagging” behind his hand. this shot is hit in a rather open stance after moving somewhat backwards but the weight yet appears to be in a stable position without giving any ground to the ball at impact. this shot will most likely be played in a neutral mode.

FH Running CourtLevel Front1- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

a great shot of the mcenroe “ready position” at the start of this clip...the ready position sets up the backswing and this ready position is custom suited for the mcenroe backswing with the position of his racquet and hand. by using the same grip for forehand and backhand he is equally ready to go either way at all times. this in itself is an advantage in terms of the split second timing tennis requires. here he is a bit out of position from an aggressive shot by his opponent so he has returned to a position where he anticipates that he will have another play to seek the advantage and at the same time is returning into the court for better position. like federer...mcenroe seems to have the uncanny ability to gather himself as he swings without appearing to be off balance.

FH Running CourtLevel Front2- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

in an era where topspin is deemed king the mcenroe technique shows much more flexibility in the repertoire of shots that he has command over. here on the run he demonstrate the ability to flatten out the forehand. the racquet starts forward barely below the ball and rises up barely over the level of his shot with his follow through. notice how stable the face of the racquet is and how long the face stays on the path of the ball. mcenroe is always smoothly rotating his shoulder through his shots. he never seems to consciously be using his wrist to manipulate his shots. it merely behaves as it should...as a passive hinge.

FH Running CourtLevel Rear- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

here is a shot that mcenroe appears to be steering into an area of the court to neutralize a fairly aggressive play from his opponent. he is a master of neutralizing points and then immediately turning the tables to get on top of the situation. it appears that his opponent has hit aggressively reverse cross court to the forehand and mcenroe may have been anticipating a backhand. he has to make a long trek wide to the far side of the court to play something low and cross court to once again turn the tables of control back to him.

[don_budge]

The John McEnroe forehand as viewed going WIDE...

WIDE

FH Wide Front- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

while moving to his left the racquet swings back into position with just enough momentum to lay the wrist back into position. the shoulders and leading hand are in exactly the same position every time whether he is moving or stationary. the shoulders rotate back to the ball and the arm and racquet follow. there is no excessive wrist activity...in fact there is minimal. there is a always a generous amount of energy engaged with the lower body.

FH Wide Side1- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

this looks like a sharply angled forehand pass on an approaching net rusher as evidenced by a sharper and more abrupt pass on the ball upwards in motion. a nice angle of the camera shows that mcenroe is pulling the butt cap at the ball in the early stage of his forward swing. there is plenty of energy loaded into the wrist action in the mcenroe forehand. the term “weaker grip” is a bit misleading. his eyes on the ball remind me of someone...federeresque.

FH Wide Side2- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

good view from the backside of the backswing on the run. notice how the last bit of backswing swings the wrist into the slightly laid back position. much less lay back than the stronger grips being played in the “modern game”. even while moving the shoulders and body are meticulously positioned to rotate into the swing. mcenroe elects to hit this one from an open stance probably to add to his deceptiveness on this particular shot.

FH Wide CourtLevel Front- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

mcenroe moves well into the court to take this ball early and possibly on the rise to hit it sharply into the backhand side of his opponent. this ball is going to be on top of the opponent in a hurry due to the flatness of the stroke. the placement tends to be uncanny as well. the backswing and later contact also contributes to his ability to disguise his intentions until the last split second. this ball could easily have been rocketing up the sideline down the line.

FH Wide CourtLevel Rear1- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

moving to his left mcenroe takes this ball that bounces on the service line from the cross court and sends it down the line with a little higher trajectory. you can see a good view of the position of the wrist and the gentle flex in the backswing and the pulling of the butt of the racquet towards the ball to initiate the forward motion of the racquet. using a bit of a jumping motion to propel the ball back mcenroe never allows the arm and racquet to get ahead of the shoulders.

FH Wide CourtLevel Rear2- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

an almost identical location as the preceding shot mcenroe using an almost identical motion except that he appears to be a bit more stable in his stance hits the ball sharply up the line on a lower trajectory for what appears to be a clean winner.

[stotty]

Lag and control

Totally agree with the last paragraph, but would offer another point of view on the video analysis. Looking at this closer, i would suggest that Mc has the the very least amount of lag (even in comparison with other continental users) of anyone I've seen.

At the end of the backswing the wrist is not laid back at all. In fact, one would be hard pressed to find a more neutral wrist position. Look at the lack of angle formed between the forearm and shaft of the racquet. It's essentially a straight line. So i would disagree that just because the butt cap is pointed forward means that the wrist is laid back. That's one point.

The other would be that "lag" is really observed, reveals itself in the initial part of the forward swing. As the butt cap is pulled, the racquet head snaps backwords, to form the right angle (more or less) between the shaft and forearm. I see very little of this angle formed in johnnie M's forward swing. In fact, the unitary movement of the handle and tip is amoungst the most pronounced I've seen. Very, very, little lag even by continental standards.

I agree about Mac's lag being almost non existent. It's what drew me to post the "flipless" thread in the first place.

I was thinking today...

Would Mac's lack of lag be a contributive factor to his incredible control? I watched Mac many times at Wimbledon. He could almost "carry" the ball around on his racket strings, especially on the forehand. No other player has had the ability to steer a ball quite like Mac (Nastase excepted). Laying back the wrist to slap at the incoming ball, as most players do, releases the ball from the strings fractionally quicker, doesn't it?....compared with Mac's method...where wrist, arm and racket seem to act as one...the ball kind of has to get "carried"? I realise talent/feel are perhaps innate qualities...but the combination of Mac's feel/control with his flipless forehand could have created his ability to carry the ball on the strings seemingly longer han anyone else.

Mac is the only player I can think of who is completely unique...

[10splayer]

FH CenterFront- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

back foot perpendicular to target...right hand stretched out in front of the body in order to turn the right shoulder at the ball...racquet back in perfect alignment with the shoulders. even though hitting from an open stance the alignment of the upper body and racquet is as if the stance were closed. hips initiate the swing followed closely by the shoulders in order to swing the arm and finally the racquet through the ball. the path of the racquet face is directly through the path of the ball. wrist action...as a completion of the back swing the wrist is “laid back” into position and at impact it delivers the “bruce lee” one inch punch effect. effectively, a very compact stretch shortening cycle (i hate that term).

FH Center Side1- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

on a ball hit directly at mcenroe...he back steps himself into position with no less than 5 small steps into perfect alignment to hit a closed stance forehand...shoulders, racquet and feet in 3 neat lines ready to go forwards...swing initiated with the lower body, feet, legs and then the hips...working its way up to the shoulders as indicated by both hands moving in the same direction at the same speed...at the same time. all of the moving parts kept neatly in the same plane. left shoulder driving into the ball with minimal stretch shortening in the wrist action. but even though this is minimal movement and barely detectable at full speed...it is delivering the payload in a perhaps more efficient use of motion. this accounts for his accuracy, power and deception.

FH Center Side 2- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

on a ball hit slightly to his left...he again positions himself with 5 small steps...notice the backswing and how small a distance his left hand actually has to travel to get in position to swing...the hand is definitely leading the racquet head, butt first to the ball...contact perhaps even or even slightly behind leading hip. impressive use of body once again to encourage a free swinging arm throughout the entire swing as indicated by the full follow through with the hand finishing shoulder high. the arc of his swing tends to be from the waist at the initiation of the forwards movement and depending upon the height of the ball the head drops slightly below the ball...the hand generally finishes in the shoulder height area.

FH Center CourtLevel Front 1- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

mcenroe is playing this ball with a slightly open stance...the reason is that he is going to play the shot with a little additional topspin. he sets himself in his standard 3 neat line stance (even though the foot is not perfectly in line his body, his stance has all the characteristics that it is)...to generate the extra spin he drops the racquet a bit more below the ball and comes over and across it a bit quicker with the assistance of his semi open stance following through more pronouncedly to the right with the racquet head doing a bit of the “wiper” motion that is being hyped as something new in modern tennis.

FH Center CourtLevel Front 2- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

this appears to be a bit of a defensive shot. he does not appear to have had the time to get his feet in perfect alignment and stabilize himself...so he does the smart thing and plays the ball safely in the court with a neutralizing ball. even so his alignment with his racquet and shoulders is perfect and the follow through at shoulder height indicate a safe percentage play from a less than balanced position.

FH Center CourtLevel Rear1- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

on a ball that bounces inside of the service line mcenroe is set to pounce and angle this ball sharply cross court with top spin. his abbreviated and open stance give him the proper angle from which to launch himself into this shot driving with his legs forwards so that once his shot is finished he is scampering to the net to more than likely finish things with a nice tidy volley. notice the perfect alignment with his racquet and shoulders. the abbreviated backswing allows him the split second to decide...and deceive. the follow through is quickly over the ball and the momentum will carry him forwards to the net.

FH Center CourtLevel Rear2- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

less than perfect balance but the alignment is again as good as it can possibly be. racquet and shoulders in alignment with the stance slightly open. it appears he will play this ball reasonably safe with extra topspin as indicated by the path of his racquet. i think it is interesting to note that it appears that mcenroe could very well catch his follow through up at shoulder high with his free hand but he elects to let it drop downwards into his free hand waiting below. this makes sense as this is where he will initiate his backswing without the tracking movement of showing the face of the racquet to the ball that is a part of federer’s approach to swinging on the forehand side.

FH Center CourtLevel Rear3- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

i love this shot. mcenroe is anticipating a short ball as he is standing well inside the baseline but instead the ball has him retreating a bit backwards. he gets himself self set up as solid as a brick wall on his back foot and elects to drive the ball down the line for an apparent winner. placement and lack of spin are a winning combination in this instance.

FH Center CourtLevel Rear4- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

one of the most distinguishing features of the mcenroe forehand is his ability to disarm his opponents with his control and disguise. here he is simply playing one of his many neutralizing balls from an open stance before he resumes his attack. he appears to have hit something in an off speed manner with perhaps a little extra spin and extra net clearance...after he strikes this ball you can see that he is confident that from where he has hit this shot his opponent will not be able to hurt him and he rather calmly prepares for the next ball.

Totally agree with the last paragraph, but would offer another point of view on the video analysis. Looking at this closer, i would suggest that Mc has the the very least amount of lag (even in comparison with other continental users) of anyone I've seen.

At the end of the backswing the wrist is not laid back at all. In fact, one would be hard pressed to find a more neutral wrist position. Look at the lack of angle formed between the forearm and shaft of the racquet. It's essentially a straight line. So i would disagree that just because the butt cap is pointed forward means that the wrist is laid back. That's one point.

The other would be that "lag" is really observed, reveals itself in the initial part of the forward swing. As the butt cap is pulled, the racquet head snaps backwords, to form the right angle (more or less) between the shaft and forearm. I see very little of this angle formed in johnnie M's forward swing. In fact, the unitary movement of the handle and tip is amoungst the most pronounced I've seen. Very, very, little lag even by continental standards.

[don_budge]

The John McEnroe forehand as viewed from the CENTER...

CENTER

FH CenterFront- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

back foot perpendicular to target...right hand stretched out in front of the body in order to turn the right shoulder at the ball...racquet back in perfect alignment with the shoulders. even though hitting from an open stance the alignment of the upper body and racquet is as if the stance were closed. hips initiate the swing followed closely by the shoulders in order to swing the arm and finally the racquet through the ball. the path of the racquet face is directly through the path of the ball. wrist action...as a completion of the back swing the wrist is “laid back” into position and at impact it delivers the “bruce lee” one inch punch effect. effectively, a very compact stretch shortening cycle (i hate that term).

FH Center Side1- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

on a ball hit directly at mcenroe...he back steps himself into position with no less than 5 small steps into perfect alignment to hit a closed stance forehand...shoulders, racquet and feet in 3 neat lines ready to go forwards...swing initiated with the lower body, feet, legs and then the hips...working its way up to the shoulders as indicated by both hands moving in the same direction at the same speed...at the same time. all of the moving parts kept neatly in the same plane. left shoulder driving into the ball with minimal stretch shortening in the wrist action. but even though this is minimal movement and barely detectable at full speed...it is delivering the payload in a perhaps more efficient use of motion. this accounts for his accuracy, power and deception.

FH Center Side 2- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

on a ball hit slightly to his left...he again positions himself with 5 small steps...notice the backswing and how small a distance his left hand actually has to travel to get in position to swing...the hand is definitely leading the racquet head, butt first to the ball...contact perhaps even or even slightly behind leading hip. impressive use of body once again to encourage a free swinging arm throughout the entire swing as indicated by the full follow through with the hand finishing shoulder high. the arc of his swing tends to be from the waist at the initiation of the forwards movement and depending upon the height of the ball the head drops slightly below the ball...the hand generally finishes in the shoulder height area.

FH Center CourtLevel Front 1- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

mcenroe is playing this ball with a slightly open stance...the reason is that he is going to play the shot with a little additional topspin. he sets himself in his standard 3 neat line stance (even though the foot is not perfectly in line his body, his stance has all the characteristics that it is)...to generate the extra spin he drops the racquet a bit more below the ball and comes over and across it a bit quicker with the assistance of his semi open stance following through more pronouncedly to the right with the racquet head doing a bit of the “wiper” motion that is being hyped as something new in modern tennis.

FH Center CourtLevel Front 2- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

this appears to be a bit of a defensive shot. he does not appear to have had the time to get his feet in perfect alignment and stabilize himself...so he does the smart thing and plays the ball safely in the court with a neutralizing ball. even so his alignment with his racquet and shoulders is perfect and the follow through at shoulder height indicate a safe percentage play from a less than balanced position.

FH Center CourtLevel Rear1- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

on a ball that bounces inside of the service line mcenroe is set to pounce and angle this ball sharply cross court with top spin. his abbreviated and open stance give him the proper angle from which to launch himself into this shot driving with his legs forwards so that once his shot is finished he is scampering to the net to more than likely finish things with a nice tidy volley. notice the perfect alignment with his racquet and shoulders. the abbreviated backswing allows him the split second to decide...and deceive. the follow through is quickly over the ball and the momentum will carry him forwards to the net.

FH Center CourtLevel Rear2- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

less than perfect balance but the alignment is again as good as it can possibly be. racquet and shoulders in alignment with the stance slightly open. it appears he will play this ball reasonably safe with extra topspin as indicated by the path of his racquet. i think it is interesting to note that it appears that mcenroe could very well catch his follow through up at shoulder high with his free hand but he elects to let it drop downwards into his free hand waiting below. this makes sense as this is where he will initiate his backswing without the tracking movement of showing the face of the racquet to the ball that is a part of federer’s approach to swinging on the forehand side.

FH Center CourtLevel Rear3- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

i love this shot. mcenroe is anticipating a short ball as he is standing well inside the baseline but instead the ball has him retreating a bit backwards. he gets himself self set up as solid as a brick wall on his back foot and elects to drive the ball down the line for an apparent winner. placement and lack of spin are a winning combination in this instance.

FH Center CourtLevel Rear4- https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

one of the most distinguishing features of the mcenroe forehand is his ability to disarm his opponents with his control and disguise. here he is simply playing one of his many neutralizing balls from an open stance before he resumes his attack. he appears to have hit something in an off speed manner with perhaps a little extra spin and extra net clearance...after he strikes this ball you can see that he is confident that from where he has hit this shot his opponent will not be able to hurt him and he rather calmly prepares for the next ball.

[stotty]

Post 13 from 10splayer.

Great to see you posting again, don_budge.

For me the most insightful post from the "Is McEnroe Flipless" thread was post 13 from 10splayer. That post REALLY opened up my mind and got me thinking.

[don_budge]

The Continental Grip according to Bill Tilden...

From Bill Tilden's book..."How to Play Better Tennis...a complete guide to tactics and technique" (page 37).

"This grip which is also known as the Eastern Service grip or the Universal grip, is used for the chop and slice stroke, the volley, the smash, the lob and the drop shot...as well as for the slice, twist and cannonball service. It should never be used to drive, particularly off the forehand, where it lacks power. Halfway between the handle positions of the forehand and backhand grips is a slanting surface of the handle. Starting from the original forehand key position, move the hand an eighth circle turn backward or counterclockwise (which is half of the way to the backhand grip), until the palm of the hand lies on this slanting surface of the handle. Then close the fingers firmly across the handle and depress the wrist making an angle with the handle of the racquet that will bring the head of the racquet above the wrist. The hand in position is not materially changed only eased between forehand and backhand."

McEnroe was never accused of listening to conventional wisdom...I don't think. He shows that there are exceptions to the rule or the book...he strokes his forehand with power and he allows for the head of the racquet to drop below his wrist.

[don_budge]

Looking in the archive...(something I often do when the forum is having a quite spell)...I came across some clips of McEnroe's forehand. It is a strange shot by world-class standards. It's flipless...he steers it...no pulling forward of the racket head.


https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/john-mcenroe/

Is he flipless...you ask? Another great question from our astute observer and contributor from the UK. It made me think...it caused me to go deep. Into Davy Jones locker of the fragile eggshell mind. My favorite contemporary player of all who is followed closely by Ille Nastase in that regard. Two mad and mercurial geniuses from days gone by. An insight into my unique perception of life and my perception of characters...perhaps even that of my own.

In real life even the heroes are flawed...not to say that either of these rascals were heros. Or were they? Afterall there are those who might find "Scarface" a hero...or Colonel Kurtz even. Only that we can overlook some of the bad behavior as time goes by...in lieu of their genius.

Are they flipless...and is genius obsolete? Yes...and no. My thoughts to follow. A great conversationalist is often the one who is asking the question that provokes thought. Comments in the "flipless" thread from tennis_chiro, bottle, licensedcoach and particularly 10splayer sent me headlong into a world of Johnny Bad Boy. Then stroke said something in the Karsten Popp backhand thread that really made me think. One or two of you may of been wondering what happened to me the last couple of weeks. Well...I have been thinking. I have been thinking about the things that have happened to me the past year...and I have been thinking about the John McEnroe forehand. As I always say...it's not the miles, it's the terrain.

As a rule I am not spending an inordinate amount of time looking at the stroke archives but your question intrigued me to look at every single example of the McEnroe forehand to make some conclusions about this rather "unusual" stroke by today's standards. As it turns out it is not so unusual afterall...considering his idol was one Rodney Laver...the great Aussie from the Harry Hopman school of tennis tradition.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/rod-laver/

https://www.tennisplayer.net/tp_player/rod-laver/

More to follow...much more.